How many dives to be a PADI scuba instructor?

[Redshift]

Problem with "preferably in different areas and conditions" is the person may not be able to do this for financial or other reasons.

I understand that problem very well, but I don't think that standards should be relaxed because of that. Or actually, I think there should in fact be standards that required divers to experience different conditions to progress and to become instructors. The cards they will have are universal.
Stoney cove is a popular inland dive site in England and there are PADI instructors who have never left the pond! On the other hand, BSAC forces divers to experience different types of diving even to progress to the second level.
On top of a minimum number of dives (which can well be 100), I'd also require a combination of depths and types of diving.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Seems to me that it isn't about dive numbers. Too easy to "fake" dive logs or do a series of 20 minute dives with the minimum surface interval to call the next descent a new dive. I know of people who logged 3, 4 and even 5 dives while others on the sic same dive logged one!

Remember it is possible that someone with a dive count in the thousands can have become so complacent that their dive count becomes a deficit!

It isn't just about dive skill sets. As already mentioned a diver may have flawless skills but not be a able to get them across.

It isn't all about instructional skill either. Someone once told me "Some people learn to teach others are born to teach." A gifted instructor without the dive skills is also useless.

If you start with an aptitude and a diving skills then dive count really isn't an issue.

The possible consequences of doing a poor job could easily result in serious injury or death so no matter what your background and skill set ongoing reassessments are vital. This may be self assessment but IMHO most people have difficulty with honest self assessment. A dedicated instructor should regularly seek some form of independent evaluation if it is not provided by their certifying agency.

We often say "You are the one responsible to dive safely and shouldn't rely on your buddy" well I say to instructors no matter what they teach "You are the one responsible for ensuring you maintain the skills and attitude to do the best possible job as an instructor"

 

[RJP]

Problem with "preferably in different areas and conditions" is the person may not be able to do this for financial or other reasons. As I suggested, lots of experience in the place [-]you are going to teach [/-] your students are going to dive counts most to me.

Fixed it for you.

Unless an instructor's students intend to do all of THEIR diving in a quarry... I would hope that's not the only place the instructor has "lots of experience."

---------- Post added January 11th, 2015 at 09:14 AM ----------

Actually, I think there should in fact be standards that required divers to experience different conditions to progress and to become instructors. The cards they will have are universal.

On top of a minimum number of dives (which can well be 100), I'd also require a combination of depths and types of diving.

You'll be relieved to know that such requirements are in place.

 

[victorzamora]

Would their experience with that equipment have been any different based on having a receipt for it in their wallet?

Absolutely it would have. Any good class doesn't just cover how to dive, but it covers how to be a diver. Owning your own gear and its related care is a part of it.

 

[RJP]

Absolutely it would have. Any good class doesn't just cover how to dive, but it covers how to be a diver. Owning your own gear and its related care is a part of it.

So, you're suggesting that someone needs to own their own gear in order to be a diver? Or that the instructior's knowledge of the scuba gear they are using would magically increase through the removal of $1,000 or so from their bank account? Plus, if you think folks doing these internships - essentially as indentured servants - don't become VERY familiar with caring for gear you don't understand how such programs work.

Either way, suggestion that lack of gear ownership for two NEW instructors is problematic is very silly. They would have been fools to have purchased gear in their situation. Suppose they had kitted themselves out with full Mares rigs before going to the program... the program may well have told them "we're a SP dealer... you can't use your Mares gear." If they had then purchased SP gear they'd be even dumber, because when they came back and started instructing for a shop they may be told "we're an AquaLung shop... You can't use your Mares OR your SP gear here."

At that point... are they better instructors merely because they spent a ton of money on gear they can't use?

 

[Hawkwood]

Absolutely it would have. Any good class doesn't just cover how to dive, but it covers how to be a diver. Owning your own gear and its related care is a part of it.

"...related care is a part of it."

Very true, but that is not limited to your own gear. The same holds for any gear, including rental, loner, demo, etc. The importance of maintaining gear should be no different between any of those. All are equally important. One does not have to own gear to know how to maintain gear.

 

[victorzamora]

I never meant that owning gear is the ONLY way of becoming a diver, just that becoming a diver is more than just diving. Teaching someone to be a diver is more than just knowing how to dive or conveying that information.

Hawkwood and RJP, owning your own gear isn't the ONLY way to learn how to care for it and maintain it properly. However, I firmly believe that's by FAR the best way to learn. As far as me not knowing how it is, RJP, you don't know my story. I was a volunteer at a dive shop, working for certs, for over a year. I literally built the shop (well, helped).....from putting up walls, installing the compressor, refurbing the compressor, filling tanks, selling gear, stocking the shop, leading classes, etc. I got two certs out of it....Rescue and Drysuit. I was in college through all of that getting my degree in Aerospace Engineering. I worked well over 100 hours a week, maintained. I'm not saying you HAVE to own your own gear, I'm saying it DOES make a difference. I will never take a course from or recommend an instructor that doesn't own their own gear. It's too crucial to be serious enough about your diving to save up and drop the cash. If I owned a shop, I might hire an instructor that didn't own their own gear.....but I can't promise that.

---------- Post added January 11th, 2015 at 11:08 AM ----------

Very true, but that is not limited to your own gear. The same holds for any gear, including rental, loner, demo, etc. The importance of maintaining gear should be no different between any of those. All are equally important. One does not have to own gear to know how to maintain gear.

Having seen how dozens of instructors and DM/guides treat loaner/rental/demo gear.....I doubt many people treat them as the same.

 

[RJP]

Victor - I agree that, everything else being equal, an instructor should own their own gear. Just saying that in this particular instance I don't think it should raise any eyebrows because, given the particulars...

1. It would have been stupid for the two new instructor's to have taken the considerable financial risk of purchasing gear at this point, not knowing where they might end up actually teaching and what gear would be required there.
2. Even if they HAD purchased their own gear, having done so would not have improved their effectiveness as an instructor in any way

Of course, if you're talking about an instructor who's been teaching for years and has never owned or maintained gear... that's a different story.

 

[Hawkwood]

Okay, do you have the same concern about a DM or an Instructor NOT using their own gear?

I do not use my own gear at all when teaching Confined Water. I use the same gear that is on the side of the pool deck as the students use. How would they even know I own my own gear? I take the a BCD, regulators, etc. off the same rack that the students do.

I am not trying to be confrontational, just trying to see your frame of reference.

As to generalities...I have yet to see much in the way of Instructors, DM/guides that I know miss-treat loaner/rental/demo gear.

 

[RJP]

Okay, do you have the same concern about a DM or an Instructor NOT using their own gear?

I do not use my own gear at all when teaching Confined Water. I use the same gear that is on the side of the pool deck as the students use. How would they even know I own my own gear? I take the a BCD, regulators, etc. off the same rack that the students do.

I am not trying to be confrontational, just trying to see your frame of reference.

As to generalities...I have yet to see much in the way of Instructors, DM/guides that I know miss-treat loaner/rental/demo gear.

I'll go one further and admit that not only have I never used anything but the shop's gear with students, I literally have no idea what regs or BCD I was using. The shop sells SP, AquaLung, Mares, Oceanic, Sherwood, DiveRite, Halcyon, Cressi, and a few others. All the gear was black... I recall that much. I believe the care and maintenance was the same for any of them.

But I do think that it's not unreasonable to wonder about an active instructor who does not own their own gear. They don't have to USE IT to teach... but imagine if you were a student and asked your instructor "what kind of gear do you have" and they said "Me... oh I don't actually own any gear."