OP
InTheDrink
Contributor
Thanks - 99% me being a wuss ;-)
I'll see if they can wheel the doc out before Friday.
I'll see if they can wheel the doc out before Friday.
How long to dive after cut?
- Thread starter InTheDrink
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OP
InTheDrink
Contributor
It appears I have at least one broken rib as well, TBC Friday, but a definite clicking feeling with larger breaths. Have broke them twice before so know how it feels and also know that it feels worse than it is. 6 weeks seems to be the general healing guideline which is ok as I have nearly 7 weeks til Cocos. I'm a bit annoyed with myself as it means I'll have gone rather a while since diving. I plan to go diving in the pool once ribs not quite so sore and stitches in arm are out. Clearly Rescue course no longer on immediate cards. Will ask Doc on Fri but if anyone got any input on when gentle pool diving with broken rib ok? Ideally I'd like to try next week. I want to stay in touch but not make things any worse. Pool is warm so no weights or other nasties that might bite in.
Sure say ask my Doc and I will in a couple of days but he doesn't dive which is why I'm asking divers here.
Cheers (and please don't make me laugh),
J
Sure say ask my Doc and I will in a couple of days but he doesn't dive which is why I'm asking divers here.
Cheers (and please don't make me laugh),
J
OP
InTheDrink
Contributor
So I've been to the Docs twice and back again tomorrow. As predicted a pretty useless affair.
Nurses spent quite a while with me and insisted no chance on going on trip. Doc spent about 5 mins with me, 'confirmed' broken rib (no x-ray, no mri) and said should be fine in 6 weeks. However I'm
a: still bleeding slightly
b: have a haematoma or some bulge in my muscle have no idea of it's implications
c: ribs getting worse not better - 'broken' rib at front seems to have knitted but ribs in lower right back feel like they're collapsed for want of better word. Maybe just bruising who knows but am not getting much joy despite spending my time with medical profession. I'm a big fan of the NHS but you don't always get a lot of time. Probably totally irrelevant but my bruising in my arm (from shoulder to wrist, think Evil Dead/Thriller) is changing patterns and places nearly daily. Looks like blood moving around, who knows.
Anyhow, basic question - can and should I call DAN about this? If not, anyone (UK based?) know best way to press for a more thorough examination? I'll ask tomorrow anyhow but honestly, and this sounds negative, I've nearly zero confidence in my doctor.
TIA,
J
Nurses spent quite a while with me and insisted no chance on going on trip. Doc spent about 5 mins with me, 'confirmed' broken rib (no x-ray, no mri) and said should be fine in 6 weeks. However I'm
a: still bleeding slightly
b: have a haematoma or some bulge in my muscle have no idea of it's implications
c: ribs getting worse not better - 'broken' rib at front seems to have knitted but ribs in lower right back feel like they're collapsed for want of better word. Maybe just bruising who knows but am not getting much joy despite spending my time with medical profession. I'm a big fan of the NHS but you don't always get a lot of time. Probably totally irrelevant but my bruising in my arm (from shoulder to wrist, think Evil Dead/Thriller) is changing patterns and places nearly daily. Looks like blood moving around, who knows.
Anyhow, basic question - can and should I call DAN about this? If not, anyone (UK based?) know best way to press for a more thorough examination? I'll ask tomorrow anyhow but honestly, and this sounds negative, I've nearly zero confidence in my doctor.
TIA,
J
OP
InTheDrink
Contributor
I'll try not to be so melodramatic this time. Here's the chronology:
Went back to doctor to get referred to get x-ray so we all know what we're dealing with
NHS won't x-ray broken ribs
Contacted my private health insurance - they won't cover me
Spoke to DAN, they gave me email address of local doctor - that bounced
Spoke to LDS - they gave me number and name of dive doctor - called him, he's retired.
I'm going to head up to London Diving Chamber now but by Christ, what a bloody labyrinth to wade through.
Whilst the advice 'see your doctor' might seem sensible I've spent three weeks in pursuit of a sensible answer from anyone so it certainly isn't *that* simple.
As things currently stand I'm unlikely to be able to do my Cocos trip which is a major disappointment should this come to pass. The fact that I've really struggled to find here or elsewhere any support only adds to that niggle.
J
Went back to doctor to get referred to get x-ray so we all know what we're dealing with
NHS won't x-ray broken ribs
Contacted my private health insurance - they won't cover me
Spoke to DAN, they gave me email address of local doctor - that bounced
Spoke to LDS - they gave me number and name of dive doctor - called him, he's retired.
I'm going to head up to London Diving Chamber now but by Christ, what a bloody labyrinth to wade through.
Whilst the advice 'see your doctor' might seem sensible I've spent three weeks in pursuit of a sensible answer from anyone so it certainly isn't *that* simple.
As things currently stand I'm unlikely to be able to do my Cocos trip which is a major disappointment should this come to pass. The fact that I've really struggled to find here or elsewhere any support only adds to that niggle.
J
I have to ask.....you've had so much trouble being seen, etc. Did you go to a public health/gov't doc or a private physician you pay for?
Chugwhump
Contributor
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GEE...I just cannot wait until we get that incredible level of service here from our proposed "American Style" National Health Service.....
(I am not trying to turn your bad situation into a political rant, but you posting the NHS comment scares the crap outta me more than any Bull Shark I ever saw!)
I sincerely hope that this all works out well for you.
Chug
kiknads
Registered
Are you using a non-stick gauze pad directly on the stitch line or just using regular gauze? The regular gauze has a tendancy to rip the scab off and keep it bleeding a lot longer it needs to
OP
InTheDrink
Contributor
Erm, let me clarify. I managed to damage myself twofold. 1. Arm cut 2. Ribs.
Cut is fine. Looks a little weird but all healed. NHS sorted that on the night.
Ribs - well they're not so good. 4 weeks on they're still incredibly painful. I've seen NHS nurse and doctors several times, problem is because they can't treat broken ribs they won't x-ray them. They establish no punctured lungs etc. and that's that.
I can and am getting seen to privately (I've been referred by NHS GP to private hospital and seeing private dive doctor hopefully) but annoying thing is I'll have to pay as my private cover have said they won't cover me. I'm looking to change provider on this basis as I pay them a lot of money and have done for last 9 years, never made a claim, and this first time they've been entirely ****.
So I wouldn't make this too much an NHS bashing session. My condition is painful but not serious (unless perhaps you're going diving in a remote location but not even I know that) so it does kind of make sense that resources are better allocated. Bear in mind that the NHS have seen me 6 times for these injuries (initial hosptal, doc x 2, nurse x 3) with no cost or waiting time. The NHS has limitations definitely but I'm Irish where the system is essentially private and the system here (UK) is way better despite the limitations.
Anyhow, we're getting away from my immediate quandary which is whether to risk diving or not. As long as pain is the only issue I'm happy to do that. I must be getting moral in my old age but keen not to put my fellow divers at risk nor deny my children a father. If neither of those are more likely cos of a few broken ribs then I'm good to go. I will be seeing the dive chamber in London soon so hopefully that will deal conclusively with my concerns.
Cheers,
J
Cut is fine. Looks a little weird but all healed. NHS sorted that on the night.
Ribs - well they're not so good. 4 weeks on they're still incredibly painful. I've seen NHS nurse and doctors several times, problem is because they can't treat broken ribs they won't x-ray them. They establish no punctured lungs etc. and that's that.
I can and am getting seen to privately (I've been referred by NHS GP to private hospital and seeing private dive doctor hopefully) but annoying thing is I'll have to pay as my private cover have said they won't cover me. I'm looking to change provider on this basis as I pay them a lot of money and have done for last 9 years, never made a claim, and this first time they've been entirely ****.
So I wouldn't make this too much an NHS bashing session. My condition is painful but not serious (unless perhaps you're going diving in a remote location but not even I know that) so it does kind of make sense that resources are better allocated. Bear in mind that the NHS have seen me 6 times for these injuries (initial hosptal, doc x 2, nurse x 3) with no cost or waiting time. The NHS has limitations definitely but I'm Irish where the system is essentially private and the system here (UK) is way better despite the limitations.
Anyhow, we're getting away from my immediate quandary which is whether to risk diving or not. As long as pain is the only issue I'm happy to do that. I must be getting moral in my old age but keen not to put my fellow divers at risk nor deny my children a father. If neither of those are more likely cos of a few broken ribs then I'm good to go. I will be seeing the dive chamber in London soon so hopefully that will deal conclusively with my concerns.
Cheers,
J
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One of the biggest nuisances about broken ribs is that there is no good way to immobilize them, and immobility is the key to rapid bone healing. In the old days, they used to tape ribs, but what happened was that people got pneumonia in that lung, because it wasn't expanding and clearing secretions properly. So we no longer do that, but the result is that it takes some time to get the ribs to heal.
Always, the biggest risk with rib fractures is injury to the underlying chest structures. Displaced rib fractures create sharp edges and points that can be driven into the pleura or lung, causing pneumothorax (or lung collapse). The highest risk of this occurring is with the original injury, but with multiple or badly displaced fractures, this can occur with motion subsequent to the original incident. The more time that has elapsed from the injury, the lower the risk of this type of thing, as scarring and some callus formation occurs.
Minimally or nondisplaced rib fractures are mostly a nuisance, assuming again that there was no underlying lung or mediastinal injury. There is some concern about increased risk of DCS in areas of injury and scar, due to decreased blood supply, but it is certainly not a reliably predictable problem, and I personally do not consider it an issue for myself when I dive, despite having had multiple fractures and surgery in the past.
A more reasonable worry is whether the pain of the injury will permit normal function -- for example, climbing a boat ladder in rough water, or getting back on a RIB (something I've actually broken ribs DOING). There may be workarounds for such things, and it might be reasonable to discuss the situation with the dive operator, if you decide to make the trip.
Always, the biggest risk with rib fractures is injury to the underlying chest structures. Displaced rib fractures create sharp edges and points that can be driven into the pleura or lung, causing pneumothorax (or lung collapse). The highest risk of this occurring is with the original injury, but with multiple or badly displaced fractures, this can occur with motion subsequent to the original incident. The more time that has elapsed from the injury, the lower the risk of this type of thing, as scarring and some callus formation occurs.
Minimally or nondisplaced rib fractures are mostly a nuisance, assuming again that there was no underlying lung or mediastinal injury. There is some concern about increased risk of DCS in areas of injury and scar, due to decreased blood supply, but it is certainly not a reliably predictable problem, and I personally do not consider it an issue for myself when I dive, despite having had multiple fractures and surgery in the past.
A more reasonable worry is whether the pain of the injury will permit normal function -- for example, climbing a boat ladder in rough water, or getting back on a RIB (something I've actually broken ribs DOING). There may be workarounds for such things, and it might be reasonable to discuss the situation with the dive operator, if you decide to make the trip.
willembad
Contributor
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I'm sorry for continuing the hi-jack, but I guess I'll just be the bad guy in this thread.
It is back-a$$ward thinking like this that has us in the position we are in, instead of working to fix this glaring problem we have with health care in this country. Let me explain so even you can understand:
- He has broken rib(s). Even the OP knows that and apparently he is not a doctor since he went to see one multiple times.
- It hurts and suck for his near future dive plans, but there is no doctor that is going to do anything different than to tell him to take it easy so it can heal.
Your solution for his plight of missing a dive trip is to do some UNNECESSARY medical procedure THAT COSTS MONEY to tell us what we already know. Wonder why health care costs what it does? Can you add that up?
To the OP:
Rest as much as you can and best of luck on making the trip
Willem
It is back-a$$ward thinking like this that has us in the position we are in, instead of working to fix this glaring problem we have with health care in this country. Let me explain so even you can understand:
- He has broken rib(s). Even the OP knows that and apparently he is not a doctor since he went to see one multiple times.
- It hurts and suck for his near future dive plans, but there is no doctor that is going to do anything different than to tell him to take it easy so it can heal.
Your solution for his plight of missing a dive trip is to do some UNNECESSARY medical procedure THAT COSTS MONEY to tell us what we already know. Wonder why health care costs what it does? Can you add that up?
To the OP:
Rest as much as you can and best of luck on making the trip
Willem
