How Dry I Am...

[Ber Rabbit]

Congratulations MIKE!

I know EXACTLY what you're feeling! Although it sounds like you and your dry suit get along much better than my dry suit and myself! :upset: Still haven't worked out which one of us is the boss! I really DON'T mind being hung upside down in the water column (so HAH! to the suit), really I don't and I can actually swim like that Come on up to Ohio and we'll go dive! If we go anywhere deep though I'm going wet, the dry suit is still relegated to shallow, safer water! It's a Viking X-treme BTW.

Good luck with your newfound skill! Here's a piece of advice I learned the hard way, if your suit has suspenders DON'T adjust them so high the crotch of the drysuit touches you like a pair of pants would! AAAARGH! Now there's a suit squeeze! (and I'm a girl!)

Ber

 

[large_diver]

I don't use a drysuit, but the comment above about additional undergarments requiring more weight got me wondering...

Is this true? Is this because they cause additional air to be trapped?

Just curious.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by large_diver

Is this true? Is this because they cause additional air to be trapped?

LD,
I'll venture forth an opinion only....
I think it has to do with:

1. Comfort - wetsuits compress independent of the divers body while drysuits sqeeze against the divers body. The tendency with a drysuit is to avoid squeeze by adding air which must of course be off set by weight. Also, since adding air gives the diver a sense of greater thermal protection more air is added which must again be off set by weight.

2. Inexperience and/or faulty training - many drysuit divers use the suit for buoyancy control and only use the BC at the surface. Adding air to the suit at depth to control buoyancy makes for a problem on ascent and so the tendency is to add plenty of weight.

3. Ill fitting drysuits and/or undergarments - that do not allow for efficient air movement to dump air on ascent. The tendency then is to add weight to counter this problem.

I have been diving dry for 16 years and started out with a lot of weight....I actually used a backplate without a wing or BC and so used my suit for buoyancy control....this was very bad!

I went to a standard BC and took off some of the weight. Then I went to a Zeagle Ranger and took off some more weight...but I was still grossly over-weighted at 44lbs because:

1. I still used my suit for buoyancy control.
2. I thought I needed the bubble of air to stay warm.
3. I was not neutral at 10fsw with 500 psi ...I was way negative.
4. I used two pair of ankle weights.

Then I went back to a backplate only this time:

1. With a wing that didn't trap air.
2. Used the wing for buoyancy control.
3. Kept a nice comfy squeeze on my suit.
4. Got rid of the ankle weights.

And I took off 20 lbs. of weight....and could have dropped another 4 lbs.
I suspect that if I were diving a 7mm w/bib and jacket I would be using the same weight... 20~24 lbs.

So the answer, from my experience is that while many drysuit divers use more weight, especially to begin with, it is not necessarily the case that it has to be so.

I am at this time also using dry gloves and argon so that helps keep me toasty.

BTW if anyone is interested in why ankle weights require extra weight on the belt let me know....it is counter intuitive that adding weight would require adding more weight.

 

[Lost Yooper]

The more underwear you have on the more buoyant you are (depending on the underwear, I guess). Another important point that many drysuit divers don't know is that the underwear should not restrict movement or flexibility. Many people wear their underwear way too tight and then are a not as flexible as they should be. Underwear is better too loose than too tight. Make sure you have a full range of movement in your underwear.

Mike

 

[FloridaDiver]

I too just finished a dry suit class - it had some "challenging" moments, but was, overall, alot of fun. I learned a few key points:

If it's a warm day (it was), get all your gear ready, then put on your suit (I know, that sounds obvious). If you get overheated on the surface, pull open the neck seal, squat, and while keeping the seal open, stand up. Cool air will rush into the suit as you stand.

Use gaiters (I have the Halcyon Gator Wraps), tighten them down pretty snug. I found that I didn't need ankle weights with the gaiters on. Also, if your suit has ankle straps, tighten them as well.

Contrary to what alot of the training literature says, use your BC for buoyancy control. Put just enough air in the suit to eliminate the squeeze. This will also allow you to shed some additional weight. In addition, you use alot less air when your not filling up your suit and then dumping it all out again.

Get a good quality undergarment that fits. A nice thinsulate jumpsuit works much better than a sweatsuit.

I found it mush easier to maintain a horizontal position with my dry suit. Hovering was also relatively easy. It took me about 5 dives to get the hang of it - I admit to being frustrated for the first 4 though. It's not as easy as it looks.

Mike, the one comment in your post that had me concerned was that the seals seemed so tight. My latex seals feel comfortable around my wrists, and just snug around my neck - I don't feel as though my eyes will "bug out". They don't leak, and seem to be trimmed properly. You might want to have another look at your neck seal. Obviously, as you didn't pass out, it isn't dangerously tight - but they probably could be more comfortable.

 

[TexasMike]

Originally posted by FloridaDiver
Mike, the one comment in your post that had me concerned was that the seals seemed so tight. My latex seals feel comfortable around my wrists, and just snug around my neck - I don't feel as though my eyes will "bug out". They don't leak, and seem to be trimmed properly. You might want to have another look at your neck seal. Obviously, as you didn't pass out, it isn't dangerously tight - but they probably could be more comfortable.

I agree that I could probably cut the neck seal down by 1 to 2 rings and still not flood the suit, but since it was a rental, I was willing to put up with the discomfort. Plus after wearing it a while, the bug-eye sensation went away. (Though for a while there, I did feel like Marty Feldman from Young Frankenstein.)

 

[TexasMike]

LD and Pug were discussing weighting when diving in a dry suit and I wanted to toss in my 18.3 centavos worth.

Based upon what I had read here and offline, and from instructor Ron Carlo, the air trapped between the layers of undergarments does add to your overall positive boyancy. However, prior to getting in your BC and other gear, you do your best to dump as much of that air out of the suit by sqatting into a fetal position while holding open the neck seal. That way when you stand up, you are already being squeezed by the suit due to the ambient atmosphere having greater pressure than what is inside of the suit.

But for your initial descent, there is still enough air in the suit to keep you slightly positively buoyant (and somewhat depending on the type of suit). So much like with neoprene, weight is needed to help start your descent below the point where the squeeze starts getting to ya.

From my experience diving in colder waters with my 5/4/3 wetsuit with a 2-mil hooded vest, I needed 16-18 pounds to get my descent going and to counteract the positive of the AL80 tank at the end of the dive. During this drysuit training, Instructor Ron explained that the amount of weight needed would be similar. So I figured for the amount of undergarments that I was wearing (3 layers of polypropylene on torso/arms, 2 on legs) that I would go a bit heavy and try 20 lbs. Turns out that that was just about right as my descent was the right speed, I did not have to add too much air to the BC at depth (or adjust by adding/dumping) when swimming, and swimming it to the surface at the end of the dive with a fully deflated BC only required a slight bit of effort.

Originally posted by Uncle Pug
So the answer, from my experience is that while many drysuit divers use more weight, especially to begin with, it is not necessarily the case that it has to be so.

After reading your post again, I wanted to concur with this statement. All newbie divers struggle with discovering just how much weight they need for their inital gear config and 95% of the time they end up way overweighted. Fortunately this is something that we gain control of rather quickly (within 5 to 10 dives after basic o/w).

So I guess we can use the same logic to learning to dive dry since you are sorta learning boyancy all over again after a major "change in the rules". New dry divers wind up over-negative but work it off eventually so that as you said in your original post, you can go from 40lbs back to 20.


Anyhow.....good stuff in this thread everyone. I hoist a beer in your general directions as a salute for your participation.

 

[jmsdiver]

Congrats, TM!!!
Being one of them there Yankee divers, I have to admit that dry is the best way to dive. You are saying the temps were in the 60's?? That's a heat wave by my standards; most of the time last summer the temps were in the low 50's on a good day, but averaged about 45. I have been diving dry for many years, the best move I've made.

On weight: I use less in the dry than I do with a wet, normally, unless I use the really thick underwear.

Just remember that there are two types of dry divers: those that wear diapers, and those that should have......

Cheers

 

[DivingGal]

welcome to the world of diving dry.... unless of course you don't set your seals properly, or zip or zippers tight, or have a leaking valve, or...

You're now ready to have fun up north here. Just give us Canucks a bit of a warning - no we're not going to hide, we'll just have to find the appropriate place to hold the party!

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by jmsdiver


Just remember that there are two types of dry divers: those that wear diapers, and those that should have......

Cheers

Just *Depends*

Pee-valve....balanced pee-valve....