How do you feel about PADI bashing on this thread??

[tedtim]

:hijackedthread: Hey, Stevie Nix was just on TV. Remember Fleetwood Mac? She is still good looking.

They just had a bit from the troops deployed to the middle east. Despite it all they look to be having a good time today.

The game starts in a couple of hours.

If you can't go diving, hunker down in front of the TV and grab a couple of cool ones.

:focus:

You guys are way to serious. 140 plus posts on this topic. Let it go, just let it go.

 

[drew52]

Unfortunately it is still funny for those who belong to an agency with similar standards (skills) to point the finger at PADI.

Just because an individual is exceeding the standards by using other materials does not mean the agency standards are not similar. Or that the agencies actual materials or course content is not similar.

For those of you that exceed those that is great and I do not think the courses you are teaching are bad. I think you are teaching great courses and respect the fact that you do this. I know I try to exceed the minimums in my teaching.

The problem, I'm sure you will find, is that you are a small minority and the large majority are teaching to the minimums of your particular agency which are very similar to PADI's.

 

[freediver]

I still do not believe that it is necessary to increase or "toughen" the standards. I think the key is to make the teaching more thorough. The standards are simply minimal guidelines. Whether you bring back the SEAL training of yesteryear, utilize additional resources in your training or simply teach to the bare minimum, the student will always get out of the class exactly what the instructor puts into his teaching. "Exceed" the standards by teaching more thoroughly. You'll likely find that a student with a good grasp of even the minimum skill set will be eager to learn more and become a better diver.

 

[Walter]

Unfortunately it is still funny for those who belong to an agency with similar standards (skills) to point the finger at PADI.

Just because an individual is exceeding the standards by using other materials does not mean the agency standards are not similar. Or that the agencies actual materials or course content is not similar.

For those of you that exceed those that is great and I do not think the courses you are teaching are bad. I think you are teaching great courses and respect the fact that you do this. I know I try to exceed the minimums in my teaching.

The problem, I'm sure you will find, is that you are a small minority and the large majority are teaching to the minimums of your particular agency which are very similar to PADI's.

Please give specific examples as to why you believe various agencies have standards that are very similar.

 

[Buoyant1]

I find that PADI has this " dive it our way our you are wrong" attiude and remind me of a bunch of yppi BMW owners sipping Lattes in front of starbucks. I'm a 24 year old male athlete and those tables are and there rules are ultra watered down. I may be off the main topic a bit here. But I belive that PADI is great for 95% of divers. But for people like me, they come of as just over the top when it comes to diver safety. Not to say that you can't be TO safe. but when many other cert companys will gladly let you hit 130ft after certification and PADI stops you at 60ft. The only reason I can see PADI doing that is a attempt at more money by allowing you to be "advanced" and go to 130

Well if PADI has the " dive it our way our you are wrong" attitude, then someone should tell the editor to their magazine that he's a dirty "MOF'r"! His picture on his editorial page has him with his mask on his forehead! :no

I have a problem with the so called "depth limitations" but I see to a point where some people SHOULDN'T go below 60 feet (or 30 feet for that matter) until they've had more training....I blew that limit a few times this past summer and I'm only OW...The guys I dive with a lot are suggesting that I take AOW just to get it done, I'm doing it for the Peak buouancy and Nav parts mostly, I've done some deeper dives, and I did a night dive so of the 5 dives that my LDS uses for AOW, I've already done two..in fact, I was informed that I'll probably lead the way to the deep spot since I've already been there a few times :mooner:

But back to the gist of the post I quoted....What agencies allow you to hit 130 without the "scuba police" pulling you over on OW?

 

[RS]

I didn't vote. I don't see "All of the above".

:blinking:

 

[Thalassamania]

Unfortunately it is still funny for those who belong to an agency with similar standards (skills) to point the finger at PADI.

Just because an individual is exceeding the standards by using other materials does not mean the agency standards are not similar. Or that the agencies actual materials or course content is not similar.

It means that the other agency standards are almost as irrelvent as PADI's.

For those of you that exceed those that is great and I do not think the courses you are teaching are bad. I think you are teaching great courses and respect the fact that you do this. I know I try to exceed the minimums in my teaching.

Pray tell, in what ways do you exceed standards?

The problem, I'm sure you will find, is that you are a small minority and the large majority are teaching to the minimums of your particular agency which are very similar to PADI's.

Of course we're a small minority. Just like people who never eat at fast food restaurants, just another of the many "small minorities" that I'm proud to be a member of. We're discerning enough to recognize that the Emperor is naked and we're not afraid to say so.

 

[Cacia]

We're discerning enough to recognize that the Emperor is naked and we're not afraid to say so.

lol. I think about the Emperor's New Clothes analogy pretty often myself.

 

[loosebits]

I still do not believe that it is necessary to increase or "toughen" the standards. I think the key is to make the teaching more thorough.

Wouldn't raising the standards make the teaching more thorough? In fact, isn't that the only way?

The standards are simply minimal guidelines. Whether you bring back the SEAL training of yesteryear, utilize additional resources in your training or simply teach to the bare minimum, the student will always get out of the class exactly what the instructor puts into his teaching.

Of course. But shouldn't the minimal guidelines and those instructors who teach to them make a diver who isn't a danger to himself and everyone/thing around him?

Couldn't you have made this exact same post if the minimum standards were "The student shows mastery of putting on his left fin"?

 

[josh]

It would be hard to correlate since other factors are involved. Over the period in which OW courses were watered down, new equipment (including safety equipment) came into more common use. For example, in the 60's when I was first certified we didn't use SPG's, BCD's, octopus or computers. Now for the most part they are part of most diver's kits.

With the exception of a computer, the equipment you stated are *required* for PADI students (while under instruction). Obvioulsy, as has been pointed out, there are no under water police, so what they do when qualified, is up to them. However, thats a "personal" and not a "agency" issue. I, for one, would not take a diver in my group who did not have an octopus.

However, your post is pretty classic, in that it pretty much starts with the assumption that the courses have been "watered down", and then goes out to point out that the technology of diving has come a LONG way from where it was in the 60's. Could it be, is it even *vaguely* possible, that the OW courses have not been so much "watered down" as changed to reflect the changes in diving equipment and technology? And that we know a fair bit more about the REAL hazards and liabilities of recreational diving than we did in say, the 60's?

Buddy breathing, to take an example, is now no longer required in the PADI OW course (it is optional). Is that "watering down" - or is it just a largely outdated and redundent (and potentially dangerous) skill to teach open water students?
-j-