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My point is that just because PADI offers a class you don't necessarily need it to dive successfully.
That seems to be a point in many fields of endeavor. I was an English teacher. My college offered classes in biology and many other subjects that I did not need. that does not make the people who ran my college scam artists, and that is not a reason for me to mock the people who did need the classes I didn't need.
 
That seems to be a point in many fields of endeavor. I was an English teacher. My college offered classes in biology and many other subjects that I did not need. that does not make the people who ran my college scam artists, and that is not a reason for me to mock the people who did need the classes I didn't need.
Don't get me started on colleges/universities. One of worst offenders of padding programs to generate revenue. I was a college administrator.

I'm just saying. "Buyer beware".
 
Don't get me started on colleges/universities. One of worst offenders of padding programs to generate revenue. I was a college administrator.

I'm just saying. "Buyer beware".
Again, I think there is merit to what both you and Boulderjohn say. Where I went to college the only required course for everyone was English 1. So that was the only non Music course I ever took. I know that some colleges require significantly more than one course for everyone. I guess the object being it builds well rounded adults. But, these courses also cost money and may be replacing other courses one may take in their chosen field. Yet these courses are not a waste of knowledge either....Probably can be related to scuba specialty courses.
 
Don't get me started on colleges/universities. One of worst offenders of padding programs to generate revenue. I was a college administrator.

I'm just saying. "Buyer beware".
I have a bachelor's in electrical engineering. While it is true that my breadth requirements didn't help me perform technical work, I do believe that portion of my university studies did have a benefit of dealing with other people. So it wasn't a complete waste.

The degree to with which this translates to scuba varies. I do believe that courses like Fish ID have the potential of actual value, but I think that is outside of the scope of most instructors teaching it. Joining REEF is a heck of a lot more worthwhile, with the exception of an actual marine scientist teaching the course (or someone who has a real passion for it).

The problem that I have in general with con ed is the low performance requirements for certification and also the low level of expertise required for an instructor to have while teaching it. I don't think I'm alone. And this isn't a PADI issue (I don't think you hate PADI as the issue you bring up is applicable to virtually all agencies) but an industry one.
 
And I’m a high school dropout :yeahbaby:

When I first started going into the dive shop to gather skin diving gear so I could go abalone diving, I asked if they offered any sort of abalone diving or freediving class and they replied they did not. But because I asked, the manager decided to start one just for people like me. I can’t remember the cost, and it was not affiliated with PADI, there was no card, it was just a seminar through the store. They came up with a curriculum that included an evening of some class time going over freediving physiology and some pool practice. A pretty good group signed up. The very next weekend we went to the ocean and put our skills to work. I even got a couple nice abalone!
Taking that class was worth every penny. I could have just started like everyone else, a hack just trying to figure it out on my own and maybe from buddies who were hacks too, but I went on that first ab dive with some professional advice from accomplished freedivers and it really helped.
 
And I’m a high school dropout :yeahbaby:

When I first started going into the dive shop to gather skin diving gear so I could go abalone diving, I asked if they offered any sort of abalone diving or freediving class and they replied they did not. But because I asked, the manager decided to start one just for people like me. I can’t remember the cost, and it was not affiliated with PADI, there was no card, it was just a seminar through the store. They came up with a curriculum that included an evening of some class time going over freediving physiology and some pool practice. A pretty good group signed up. The very next weekend we went to the ocean and put our skills to work. I even got a couple nice abalone!
Taking that class was worth every penny. I could have just started like everyone else, a hack just trying to figure it out on my own and maybe from buddies who were hacks too, but I went on that first ab dive with some professional advice from accomplished freedivers and it really helped.
Could be that's why my "free diving" (don't think they used to call it that) was limited to maybe 10-12 feet of depth-- I had no training. Of course at those depths I could poke around for maybe 30 seconds searching for shells. I called "snorkeling and going down & up a lot". That's why I got into scuba.
 
Could be that's why my "free diving" (don't think they used to call it that) was limited to maybe 10-12 feet of depth-- I had no training. Of course at those depths I could poke around for maybe 30 seconds searching for shells. I called "snorkeling and going down & up a lot". That's why I got into scuba.
One of my favorite things to do was see how many times I could slowly swim from one end of the pool to the other and back, without coming up for air. The farthest I got was slightly over 3 pool lengths. Actually getting some free-diving training and getting good at it sounds fun in a way, in particular being able to dive at any time without equipment. But then I could also just dive with equipment for 1hr at 60ft, with no breath-holding nonsense.
 
And I’m a high school dropout :yeahbaby:

When I first started going into the dive shop to gather skin diving gear so I could go abalone diving, I asked if they offered any sort of abalone diving or freediving class and they replied they did not. But because I asked, the manager decided to start one just for people like me. I can’t remember the cost, and it was not affiliated with PADI, there was no card, it was just a seminar through the store. They came up with a curriculum that included an evening of some class time going over freediving physiology and some pool practice. A pretty good group signed up. The very next weekend we went to the ocean and put our skills to work. I even got a couple nice abalone!
Taking that class was worth every penny. I could have just started like everyone else, a hack just trying to figure it out on my own and maybe from buddies who were hacks too, but I went on that first ab dive with some professional advice from accomplished freedivers and it really helped.
That sounds great--it really does.

About a dozen years ago some friends and I started doing something similar, but one of them was advised not to do that by an attorney. The attorney explained that if something went wrong on the dive, there would almost certainly be a lawsuit, and in that lawsuit, the plaintiff's attorney would do everything possible to prove that what you did in that class was not within normal best practices for scuba instruction, and the burden of proof would be on you to prove that the instructional practice you invented was safe. If, on the other hand, the content of your instruction was already approved by a major scuba agency, the burden would be on the plaintiff to prove that the major scuba agency was wrong in approving the content of the course.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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