How Do You Actually Get PADI Master Scuba Diver Cert?

[TheScubaBOB]

95' isnt really any different from 9,5' as far as skills goes. You lose a few options (and have less time and a chance to be narced) but the execution of the skills are exactly the same..

Well, I would agree that in theory Execution of skills is almost the same at any depth.

A mask flood & clear is always the same procedure and your kick (frog, flutter, whatever) won't change just because of depth.

Now on the other hand a CESA from 95ft is a completely different situation than a CESA from 9.5ft!

Of course lets not forget the increased air consumption (due to compression).

Also, deeper generally (I know there some places this doesn't effect) means less light and always means the colors are off.

The aquascape at 100ft is nothing like it is at 9.5ft.

Yeah that whole NARCed thing is important also. I've seen my handwriting at 95ft, I can read it {barely}.

I would also say that the safety stop is much more important when you're diving deep than diving shallow.

 

[elan]

kyphur, put everything clear.

Just to add, executing mask removal and replacement and removal in 36F degree water is the same procedure as in 80F yet it's a totally different animal as it requires extra preparation if you want to do it safely.

The techniques is the same everywhere it's just the price you have to pay if you f..ck up is different.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

kyphur, put everything clear.

Just to add, executing mask removal and replacement and removal in 36F degree water is the same procedure as in 80F yet it's a totally different animal as it requires extra preparation if you want to do it safely.

Yeah, I forgot about the temp diff, sure the FIRST thermocline is around 30ft but there's a second one before you hit 75ft around here. It doesn't bother me as much as it does my daughter but that's why dives with her will be on the shallow side for me.

 

[Tigerman]

Well, I would agree that in theory Execution of skills is almost the same at any depth.

A mask flood & clear is always the same procedure and your kick (frog, flutter, whatever) won't change just because of depth.

Now on the other hand a CESA from 95ft is a completely different situation than a CESA from 9.5ft!

Of course lets not forget the increased air consumption (due to compression).

Also, deeper generally (I know there some places this doesn't effect) means less light and always means the colors are off.

The aquascape at 100ft is nothing like it is at 9.5ft.

Yeah that whole NARCed thing is important also. I've seen my handwriting at 95ft, I can read it {barely}.

I would also say that the safety stop is much more important when you're diving deep than diving shallow.

CESA should never be anything than a last resort, regardless of how deep you are. Planning your dive with a CESA as your oog backup is not brillinat. You (should) have a buddy that can share air, you can go for redundancy and if you plan your dive properly youre unlikely to need either one.

I did mention that youll have less time and thats obviously because of both NDL and air consumption. As far as safety stops goes, if you do your deep dives "by the book" you have an extra tank hanging there with air if you should need it - and thats covered in AOW, not the deep specialty.

So what if the colors are off? The only problem that should give you is white balancing your pictures.
So what if theres less light? Thats what lights are for and last I checked they wherent rocket science to make use of.

The visibility can be close to 0 at 10 feet just as easy as on 95 feet. Ive had dives where the visibility was less than an armlength at the surface.

Wether or not youre noticeably narced at 95 feet has got more factors to it than just the fact that its 95 feet as well. Water temprature, stress and workload will do their part in adding to narcosis.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

CESA should never be anything than a last resort, regardless of how deep you are. Planning your dive with a CESA as your oog backup is not brillinat. You (should) have a buddy that can share air, you can go for redundancy and if you plan your dive properly youre unlikely to need either one.

Yep, CESA should be your last choice and you should be aware of when it isn't even there as a realistic option.

Proper dive planning goes a long way but there are things you can't plan for which is why we call them "unexpected". In theory none of our gear would ever have a failure but o-rings blow out, weights get dropped and divers get tangled in line.

I did mention that youll have less time and thats obviously because of both NDL and air consumption.

It's a difference isn't it, that makes 9.5ft not the same as 95 ft.

It also means you need to have more air in your BC at 95ft than 9.5ft, why is that? Yep increased pressure, the same thing that causes the increased air consumption and increased nitrogen loading at depth.

Any diver who doesn't know they why behind the NDL, increased air consumption & BC management doesn't belong 9.5ft below the surface.

As far as safety stops goes, if you do your deep dives "by the book" you have an extra tank hanging there with air if you should need it - and thats covered in AOW, not the deep specialty.

Actually, the only reason its covered in AOW is because AOW uses Dive #1 of the Specialty Dives (which are considered Adventure Dives) and Deep is required for AOW so to correct you the Deep Diver Specialty DOES cover use of emergency hang tanks.

What do you do when you can't use a hang tank {shore diving} but will go

So what if the colors are off? The only problem that should give you is white balancing your pictures.
So what if theres less light? Thats what lights are for and last I checked they wherent rocket science to make use of.

Do you really think it will only negatively impact your photos?

If you lose colors then it does reduce your ability to to distinguish details just like reduced light does. Will you tell me that doesn't put you at more risk?

Yes, that's what lights are for but again it's less likely you'll need lights at 9.5ft than at 95ft. Also, using lights is a task so it goes towards task loading.

The visibility can be close to 0 at 10 feet just as easy as on 95 feet. Ive had dives where the visibility was less than an armlength at the surface.

So, where is the reduced visibility more likely to be more stressful?

Wether or not youre noticeably narced at 95 feet has got more factors to it than just the fact that its 95 feet as well. Water temprature, stress and workload will do their part in adding to narcosis.

Thank you for agreeing with me: It's colder at depth, you're more stressed at depth, you're more task loaded at depth.

All of this adds up to more of everything at deeper depth so 9.5ft is nothing like 95ft.

 

[scubadada]

Hmmm... PADI wasn't even close to being in existence by the time I logged my first 50 dives. I guess there is no hope for me as a "master" SCUBA diver. Shucks.

And there is no need for you to be either, is there?

Good diving, Craig

Hope no one felt I was bashing PADI in my comment... just stating a fact that PADI wasn't even the new boy on the block when I started diving. I have two PADI cards (AOW and Rescue). PADI has done a lot to promote the activity and I appreciate that. I do wish the economic reality allowed more in depth course work for certification like we had under Los Angeles County in the 60s, but then certified divers can take the LAC ADP (Advanced Diver Program).

However, after thousands of dives over the last 48 years, I still don't consider myself a Master SCUBA Diver... I still have a lot of technique to learn, especially if I start diving with buddies and more people actually see me flailing around!

Hey Dr Bill,

I don't believe anyone thought you were piling on and joining the PADI bashing with regard to MSD. I also did my intitial training with the LAC in 1970 and will forever be grateful for the quality training that started off my diving career.

See you in Florida?

Good diving, Dr Craig

 

[Tigerman]

Yep, CESA should be your last choice and you should be aware of when it isn't even there as a realistic option.

Proper dive planning goes a long way but there are things you can't plan for which is why we call them "unexpected". In theory none of our gear would ever have a failure but o-rings blow out, weights get dropped and divers get tangled in line.


It's a difference isn't it, that makes 9.5ft not the same as 95 ft.

It also means you need to have more air in your BC at 95ft than 9.5ft, why is that? Yep increased pressure, the same thing that causes the increased air consumption and increased nitrogen loading at depth.

Any diver who doesn't know they why behind the NDL, increased air consumption & BC management doesn't belong 9.5ft below the surface.


Actually, the only reason its covered in AOW is because AOW uses Dive #1 of the Specialty Dives (which are considered Adventure Dives) and Deep is required for AOW so to correct you the Deep Diver Specialty DOES cover use of emergency hang tanks.

What do you do when you can't use a hang tank {shore diving} but will go


Do you really think it will only negatively impact your photos?

If you lose colors then it does reduce your ability to to distinguish details just like reduced light does. Will you tell me that doesn't put you at more risk?

Yes, that's what lights are for but again it's less likely you'll need lights at 9.5ft than at 95ft. Also, using lights is a task so it goes towards task loading.


So, where is the reduced visibility more likely to be more stressful?



Thank you for agreeing with me: It's colder at depth, you're more stressed at depth, you're more task loaded at depth.

All of this adds up to more of everything at deeper depth so 9.5ft is nothing like 95ft.

I do not agree because;
1. Youre not more stressed just because youre deeper.
2. Youre not more taskloaded just because youre deeper.
3. Tempratures are site specific. Some sites you have one or more thermoclines (like my coldass local lakes) others its barely noticeable if all existant.
4. Dive planning is theoretically the same wether its 10, 50 or 100 feet. The numberes are just higher for air consumption and lower for NDL.
5. No single gear failure is fatal. Even if you dont have a buddy you should have redundancy.
6. Yes, you use a bit more air in your bouyancy device, so what? Thats not gonna increase your sac dramatically by itself.

I could have been clearer on the hang tank thing, its covered in both AOW and Deep Diver specialty, but the point is you dont need the specialty to have it covered. Theres several options as to "what to do if you cant use a hang tank", one of them being a pony bottle or carrying more tanks. Regardless it needs to be outside of your gas tank to fullfill the purpose of being an "emergency only" air source.

Lowered visibility by itself shouldnt cause more stress at depth than in the shallows. The end point is the same - you dont see as far as you otherwise would. If youre stressed by bad vis, get more comfortable in the water before you dive bad vis.

Im not sure what youre looking for with your "loss of colors means you dont see hazards" thing to be honest. What is it that you dont see? The fishing line that was designed not to be seen in the first place?
Getting tangled happens and thats why you carry cutters and its one scenario where a buddy might come in handy - regardless of how deep or shallow you are.

This has gone far off topic anyways, so Ill just stop here.
Sorry for the hijack