How Can This Be!

[KangarooSeatbelt]

Quote:
Blaming the diver for getting 4 C-cards is wrong headed. It's the instructor you should be castigating. Most divers usually have NO IDEA what they need to do to "earn" a certification

BULL! The course requirements are well written in ALL of the books as well as the divelog that comes with the books. The required amount of dives for each level is also in the books. It is like going to an admission office and inquiring about a degree then going to the next window and receivieng it. You cannot tell me that she was not aware that something was not adding up. She must of knew something was wrong because she told us that she received her c-cards with only six dives! bragging about it, because she is very smart and catches on quickly.

Very true. If she wasn't aware of course requirements, as in dive numbers, reccomended experience, etc., it's the instructors fault for not catching it, but it's also HER fault for not reading her materials properly.

Quote: You can tell a superior instructor by their students. You can also tell a poor instructors by the lack of skills in their students.

This may be getting off subject, but...
You can also tell a great instructor by the fact that they're willing to NOT CERTIFY someone in their class b/c that person isn't ready or didn't make the grade. It's relatively unheard of for someone to take a scuba class and hear that "they may not make it through" or that "they may not get certified." In my opinion, this is a mistake. Only if the person is a complete nincompoop will an instructor not certify them, and then only sometimes. It'd be tough, no doubt, to be like, hey gary, i know we spent all weekend together, and you tried really hard, but you suck, so i'm not certifying you. take the course again later when you're ready. This is an exaggeration obviously, but it'd be hard nonetheless to explain to a student that you don't think they're ready and are withholding certification. I've only ever seen ONE instructor do this... Lloyd Bailey in Gainesville, Florida. We had a cavern/intro to cave course, and there was a husband-wife team who flew down from NY just for the class. He didn't certify the wife, but certified the husband. That HAD to be hard.. those are the worst circumstances I've ever heard. But it should be done more often, and not just at the more advanced certifications. It should be done at O/W level as well. There'd be nothing wrong with having a student come back and "audit" another open water class, and participate in the check out dives, or to get some one on one with the instructor or someone already certified (in a pool) so they can get it all figured out. This is dangerous stuff, even if we're just looking for sharks teeth in crystal clear water at 20'. It's a hazardous environment and we're training on life support equipment. It can be easy, and should be fun, but it's still a risk everytime we get in the water, and we should remember that when training new people.
As for this lady, it sounds like you guys did all you could to offer help, and she wasn't having any of it. Because of the poor quality of training these days, and the relative ease someone can grab certs with, a lot of people can come under the impression that certfications = experience, which is patently untrue. They should reflect it, sure, but by no means ensure it.

 

[The Dive Bum]

I'm with Rick on this one. I would hate to be on a dive boat like that one. I would be more concerned with a DM that yelled at a new diver. If he was a pro at all he should notice a diver that needed to be taken aside to see if she was cool with the dive and with her diving skills.

 

[fairybasslet]

I see most of the reply here aiming to critize Stevediver.

I just want to share my experience, that this kind of diver (similar to the lady that he was talking about) is really a headache for their companions. I can understand why Stevediver did what he did.


I had this friend, he went to OW together with me, before he even touched the sea, he already had full gear. Before he finished OW, he was planning to get his AOW. A week after OW, he went for AOW. By the time I took my AOW, he took his Rescue and already bought his second set of equipment (he felt that his previous equipment was not able to perform now he had higher experience). And mind you, all of his equipment cost arm, leg, and kidney. All of them all top range, including the top range mask, I forget the type which cost 10 times or more than ordinary mask. He told me he was also preparing himself to go technical.


His performances, I have a lot to share with you guys.

- He rode a turtle in his OW dive, so the dive pattern was up and down up and down, ignoring the instructor warning.

- He dives with his hands all over him, grabbing and moving frantically.

- He can't stay at one spot for a long time, because he can control his buoyancy, so he has to keep fining.

- After he was certified Rescue, he was still struggling to do roll-back right.


Every dive we had with him, gave us headache.
- He was always number one when the DM tried to show us something, and gave us no chance to look at the thing/scared the fish away.


During my long trip with him, every dive was a disaster for him.

- He shot up two times from more than 50 ft, because he didn't realized he was out of air. (We were still have at least 1/3 of the tank capacity). Thank God he was OK.
Just for information, he seemed like he doesn't understand about buddy system. He never stayed close to his buddy, and didn't understand hand signal. When one of the buddy asked him to do safety stop when he ran out of air, he nodded ok and finned away to chase a fish. :11:

- He has 60% dives with flooding mask. Yes, that expensive mask. When we told him that his mask might be too big for him, he demonstrated that he did a proper try when he bought it. And guess what, he tried it, he put his mask on, and it didn't drop, because he also put on the strap. (I can wear a D sized bra mask without dropping it if I put the strap on..)

- His equipments failed. His octopus failed, His inflator hose went off, He dropped his camera, and didn't realize it until he was in the boat. Lately I know, he blamed everyone for not taking care of him. (He did his own ascend without telling us that he was going to go up).
This was the second time he dropped his camera. First time, his buddy recovered it, eh, he just snatched it away without thanks.
And every time his equipment failed (almost every dive, we just needed to wait for his story every time we surfaced), he planned to change them. I can see why he would never be comfortable with his equipments.

There was one time, first time he did the back roll correctly, he swam to me and started bragging and asking whether I was ok and needed his help. I guess it boasted his confidence??? (See I also can do back roll, so now, I think you need my help because you have lower certification). Gosh...

We really don't know how to deal with him. We have this group of seven divers + DM. And although we had assigned buddy, usually we are group buddy, we look at everyone closely, unless, of course, they are out of our sight without any communication, like him, and it happened all the time.

Group talk, individual talk, nag, we had tried, but he never really understood and listened to us. From serious talking to making fun of him, we couldn't make him come to senses.
Worst, he felt intimidated, and refused to talk to us when we started to 'nag'. :007:

After that long trip, he told us we are not the suitable companions for him, and he felt he was out of place and 'not welcomed', so he pursued his dream to be dive master and technical diver (I'm scared for anyone involved). A month after the dive trip, I heard he bought his third set of equipments. (We strongly think he printed money) :shakehead

The rest of the group are still close friends and dive together. Right, he is always an entertaining topic. There is a limit when you become a joke. :whack:


P.S : I spent an hour and a half, ten angry fingers writing this post.

You know, a person like this is probably just as rude and obnoxious on land as underwater. It has nothing to do with diving and everything to do with manners. I have been truly amazed by the lack of manners prevalent in everyday situations (grocery shopping, driving) but when you're stuck on a boat with someone like this, or underwater (where you could very well lose your life), well, I guess it just takes on a whole 'nother dimension. As for the equipment, people can buy a Maserati and still be a losey driver.

 

[NauticalbutNice]

Now you're trying to put yourself across as her knight in shining armor and I can't understand the things you were saying at the beginning of this thread...snip...If you ask me I think you're trying to spin-doctor your way out of embarrassing yourself with your decidedly unhelpful behavior. I don't buy it. I think you acted shamefully and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I agree.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[SteveDiver]

I agree.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

Me too... I agree completly. I offered her no help, I did not try to talk to her nor did anyone else, I laughed in her face also spit in it as well. We did not keep an eye on her because basically who cares. I am trying to not embarrass myself in front of my keyboard and monitor.

 

[NauticalbutNice]

Me too...

Hey a'body can make mistakes. (notice how I didn't name you...she made a mistake...I think you made a mistake too...we ALL do it) Shame you got berrated quite a lot for this. But I can understand both sides of the arguement.

I guess it's one of those issues that is never going to be resolved.

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[SteveDiver]

And what mistake would that have been? all we tried to do is help her. We did not laugh in her face as several of you are stating. She was not mistreated by anyone and was treated with respect. Of course there are those for the sake of argueing attempting to make things different then what they were. If you read the entire postings you will see me clarify my original post. I am no longer going to respond to the ignorance of others who cannot read and comprehend. This is the reason why I am NEVER going to attempt to assist another diver as far as I am concerned if they are not my buddy they are on their own. It is quite interesting on the **** one gets in trying to help another. I do believe that some of the posters on here have no life. Their only thing to do is attempt to twist facts and create havoc for their own pitiful entertainment. I know, I know I should have tied the lady down and make her listen to us against her will.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Steve,

I believe that you guys weren't so bad. I'm sure that no one laughed in her face and I believe you guys actually wanted to help. I also know that there are some pretty odd folks out there. We all run in to 'em now and then. If you don't then your living under a rock. Maybe this gal was one of those people that has her wiring crossed. I believe most of the folks here understand that and probably have had very similar experiences.

I think that it was the wording of your initial post that got the scuba boarders going. It can be very difficult to express ourselves with the written word. If it wasn't then there would be a lot more writers and a lot more books.

I'm sure that if we were all on a boat together we would be having a great time.

 

[NauticalbutNice]

I'm sure that if we were all on a boat together we would be having a great time.

After we stopped beating each other with rocks over dive styles, dive plans....etc etc etc

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

 

[GreenDiverDown]

After we stopped beating each other with rocks over dive styles, dive plans....etc etc etc

Nauticalbutnice :fruit:

BCD's, starboard...BP/wings, port!