How are gas prices and inflation going to affect your diving?

[BoundForElsewhere]

The EV conundrum reminds me of when construction started going green in the 90's. Architects would specify bamboo plywood from SE Asia rather than pine from North Carolina because bamboo grows faster and is more "environmentally correct". This, in spite of the fact that the bamboo plywood had to get driven to port, get on a ship to come overseas, get on a train or truck to drive across country, get to a distribution center down south, and then driven up to NYC for use on job sites.

All this rather than drive from NC 12 hours on a truck.

Idiots.

 

[Akimbo]

We live in the sticks and loose power pretty often due to trees breaking overhead lines. The greatest irony is a neighbor has two Teslas and has to charge them with their propane generator when the grid is down.

They also have solar panels but the way it is wired (probably because they also have a generator too), they can't deliver power to their house when the grid is down. Of course the price of propane is at a record high too.

California's solar policy is especially stupid. A high percentage of the population lives close to the coast where fog and overcast is far more prevalent. The policy encourages us to put individual solar collectors on our roofs where they are dangerous to clean. Of course dirty panels further reduces generation capacity — to say nothing of compromising the weathertightness of the roof. Did I mention that the coast also gets higher winds?

It would make so much more sense to encourage us to invest the same money in local solar farms. They would be located a few miles inland where the land is much less expensive and there is way more sunshine. Solar farms are professionally maintained and are less expensive to build per watt. Cows and sheep like to graze in the shade under the panels so ranchers are happy to lease the land cheep. That saves solar farms the cost of mowing and homeowner-investors would get a better return.

 

[Akimbo]

The EV conundrum reminds me of when construction started going green in the 90's. Architects would specify bamboo plywood from SE Asia rather than pine from North Carolina because bamboo grows faster and is more "environmentally correct". This, in spite of the fact that the bamboo plywood had to get driven to port, get on a ship to come overseas, get on a train or truck to drive across country, get to a distribution center down south, and then driven up to NYC for use on job sites.

True, people need to look at "net energy". Volvo did an interesting study that considered the energy used through the entire supply chain including mining, processing, transportation, manufacturing, operation, maintenance, and recycling. Net-net-energy breakeven on EVs didn't happen until the 100,000 mile range.

I'm not anti-EV. I just think that decisions should be well-informed. We are a long way from the perfect solution.

 

[formernuke]

The answer is EV, but first we need realistic ways to generate the electricity. Right we don't have that in the US. If these power companies would actually spend the time a money to create solar panels that last more than a few years more tidal generators etc then we could do it. But they make too much money off oil and coal so it won't happen.

As you said net energy right now it cost more energy to make the solar panels then you get from them in there lifespan.

 

[kelemvor]

I guess my opinion seems to be the opposite of yours. For me, gas prices are not that much of a factor. Gas prices now are still significantly lower than they were in 2016. Currently under $5/gal here, I have a snapshot of a local gas station charging over $6 in 2008. Although we did enjoy reasonable gas prices from 2017-2021, that time has passed.
The price for everything else has skyrocketed. Especially air travel and hotels, but also boat trips, and especially things that everyone (as opposed to just tourists) wants like food. The price for electricity has quadrupled this year, which isn't a dive cost but a $1,200 electric bill (prior years was about $300 in May) affects how much money I have for recreational activities. That's a residential price, btw. I have all the gear I need, so I haven't felt any price increases at the LDS yet.

As far as EV's go, I was totally on board with Tesla in prior years - I just couldn't justify paying $80,000.00 for a car. Given the steep electric price increase, I'm now feeling thankful that I didn't find a way to make it happen.

 

[Akimbo]

The answer is EV, but first we need realistic ways to generate the electricity.

Agreed. The LONG range solution is nuclear fusion, but I doubt that battery powered EVs will ultimately win in the market. The promise of fusion is so great that the electricity would be cheep enough to generate hydrogen for fuel-cell EVs. Fusion is getting a lot closer but is still a long way off.

It is interesting to watch the environmental movement shifting support to gen-3 nuclear fission reactors. The cost/watt probably wouldn't justify generating hydrogen through electrolysis, but it will be even better than the gen-2 plants in France. It will be fascinating to watch.

In any case, the world is going to need a LOT more copper and aluminum wire to move all these electrons, no matter where they come from. Exciting times.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Look at how electricity is made, I'm 100 percent right you are using more oil to run an electric car than just driving a regular combustion engine.

But by all means keep believing what the oil companies want you to believe.

Not true at all. For the vast majority of Americans, electricity is much cleaner than gas powered cars. In CA, most electricity is natural gas and alot of it is wind and water powered.

Even in areas that use the dirtiest fuels (coal, oil) for electricity, remember that you could put much better pollution prevention (scrubbers, etc.) on a energy plant's exhaust pipe than you can on each individual car's tailpipe.

EVs are WAYYYYYY cleaner than gas powered cars. That is clear.

 

[azstinger11]

In any case, the closely related fuel cost and inflation (reduced value of money) is another blow to the recreational diving industry suffering from more than two years of pandemic shutdowns. It will be interesting and sad to watch the businesses that close and merge.

I don't see electric charter boats or commercial aircraft in the foreseeable future. Besides, electricity costs are also insane. It is cheaper to buy gas than use plug-in hybrids in some parts of the US. Top that off with capacity limitations of the grid and the energy future looks pretty bleak

A lot more local freediving seems to be the future.

Somewhat ironically SDG&E which has the highest rates in the continental US has phenomenal off hour charging rates for EVs (10c a KWH vs 64c a KWH during peak).

We live in the sticks and loose power pretty often due to trees breaking overhead lines. The greatest irony is a neighbor has two Teslas and has to charge them with their propane generator when the grid is down.

They also have solar panels but the way it is wired (probably because they also have a generator too), they can't deliver power to their house when the grid is down. Of course the price of propane is at a record high too.

California's solar policy is especially stupid. A high percentage of the population lives close to the coast where fog and overcast is far more prevalent. The policy encourages us to put individual solar collectors on our roofs where they are dangerous to clean. Of course dirty panels further reduces generation capacity — to say nothing of compromising the weathertightness of the roof. Did I mention that the coast also gets higher winds?

It would make so much more sense to encourage us to invest the same money in local solar farms. They would be located a few miles inland where the land is much less expensive and there is way more sunshine. Solar farms are professionally maintained and are less expensive to build per watt. Cows and sheep like to graze in the shade under the panels so ranchers are happy to lease the land cheep. That saves solar farms the cost of mowing and homeowner-investors would get a better return.

I take it you haven't driven the 8 recently? That is exactly what is happening out in the deserts between Yuma and San Diego.

 

[Chavodel8en]

Luckily we got a plug-in hybrid right when the gas prices rocketed. Great for daily use - we use no gas at all, as we have ~27 miles of EV range.

For the ~230 mile round trip to Monterey/Carmel, it will take about 1/2 a tank. Much better than the almost full tank in a regular car.

Had I still been in a regular car, ~$75 in gas would be a concern. ~$40 is better.

I wanted an EV, but the wife doesnt trust their range. And that trip to Monterey/Carmel would be pushing the range of most EVs, so maybe the plug-in hybrid is a good compromise.

 

[azstinger11]

I really think a RAV4 prime plug in, might be my next car. ~50miles on battery lets me run around town for cheap, get in HOV lanes, but still has a traditional gas engine with great MPG for longer trips.