How are Certification Agencies made?
- Thread starter CAPTAIN SINBAD
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
As said, anyone with a card printer can start printing certifications. You should test the theory of how easy it is. Print yourself a card with your new agency and logo on it. Then take it to EVERY SINGLE DIVE SHOP you can find and see how many will take you on a dive, rent you gear, fill your tanks, etc.
Before you do that you might go check out the success people have had with David Holt who made "Aquastrophics". He has recently made a new "company" that issues forgeries for any agency. More entertaining is that he still talks about being a NAUI Instructor and gives his instructor number. A search of that number shows he was expelled from NAUI years ago.
Then you can check out the Florida Association of Dive Instructors. He got pissy with PADI and tried to make his own agency. That also didn't go well. You can find that "agency" on Facebook. He uses it as an outlet to vent his anger.
Long story short, starting an agency 50 years ago on the ground floor would have likely turned out pretty well. These days the monster agencies are no match for any new one. And to answer your question, yes, anyone could do it back then. PADI was founded by two guys sitting around a bottle of scotch (may have been whiskey...I forgot).
Before you do that you might go check out the success people have had with David Holt who made "Aquastrophics". He has recently made a new "company" that issues forgeries for any agency. More entertaining is that he still talks about being a NAUI Instructor and gives his instructor number. A search of that number shows he was expelled from NAUI years ago.
Then you can check out the Florida Association of Dive Instructors. He got pissy with PADI and tried to make his own agency. That also didn't go well. You can find that "agency" on Facebook. He uses it as an outlet to vent his anger.
Long story short, starting an agency 50 years ago on the ground floor would have likely turned out pretty well. These days the monster agencies are no match for any new one. And to answer your question, yes, anyone could do it back then. PADI was founded by two guys sitting around a bottle of scotch (may have been whiskey...I forgot).
Originally agencies were formed to try and put some standard training in place as scuba gained popularity among non military persons. Many of the first divers were ex military and they started to train others. Southern California was a big diving area and the first agency in the US was started by the LA County Parks and Recreation Dept. It still exists today and among knowledgeable divers is perhaps the most respected cert there is. Then it was decided that a national agency needed to be formed and the YMCA Scuba Program came into being. Everything else came after. NAUI was next and like the YMCA their program was based on skills and education.
Then some people saw they could make a buck or two and things changed. Some say for the better. I don't know. There are certianly more people in the water than there would have been. Including some who really should not be if you see them flailing around, not knowing what they are doing, and in some cases getting hurt and worse. Not to mention the ones who realized they have no idea what they are doing and quit.
SEI was was formed when the YMCA shut down it's Scuba program. In 2008 after turning over management of the program to non divers and combining it with their fine lifeguard training program it was decided that it was no longer financially viable for them. So they decided to "sunset" the program.
That was not acceptable to some former directors and YScuba officers. So SEI was formed and I was in from the beginning.
And for the record most of the agencies in the US are NOT in the RSTC and they seem to want to keep it that way. It's all politics and money driven. The Y program was one of the orginal members of the RSTC. The SEI Program was nearly a carbon copy of the Y pogram but with even higher standards in some areas, yet SEI was denied membership until they had been in existence for a number of years.
We still are not members to it directly. But the aquisition of PDIC by Tom Leaird who is also the CEO of SEI gives some representation now. Personally I see no benefit in membership to the RSTC. And based on the way other signatories to it ignore the guidelines they themselves set up, feel it's better to not be associated with them. That is just my own opinion.
Then some people saw they could make a buck or two and things changed. Some say for the better. I don't know. There are certianly more people in the water than there would have been. Including some who really should not be if you see them flailing around, not knowing what they are doing, and in some cases getting hurt and worse. Not to mention the ones who realized they have no idea what they are doing and quit.
SEI was was formed when the YMCA shut down it's Scuba program. In 2008 after turning over management of the program to non divers and combining it with their fine lifeguard training program it was decided that it was no longer financially viable for them. So they decided to "sunset" the program.
That was not acceptable to some former directors and YScuba officers. So SEI was formed and I was in from the beginning.
And for the record most of the agencies in the US are NOT in the RSTC and they seem to want to keep it that way. It's all politics and money driven. The Y program was one of the orginal members of the RSTC. The SEI Program was nearly a carbon copy of the Y pogram but with even higher standards in some areas, yet SEI was denied membership until they had been in existence for a number of years.
We still are not members to it directly. But the aquisition of PDIC by Tom Leaird who is also the CEO of SEI gives some representation now. Personally I see no benefit in membership to the RSTC. And based on the way other signatories to it ignore the guidelines they themselves set up, feel it's better to not be associated with them. That is just my own opinion.
DevonDiver
N/A
Recognition is the key factor. A c-card is proof of training. That training has to be recognized and accepted by the industry. As others have mentioned, the only 'value' in such a card is where you can walk into a dive operation and be permitted to dive because of it.
Personally, I think there is much more scope to develop and seek recognition for specialist activities. It'd be much harder to do the same for entry-level or core scuba training.
Take, for instance, an agency like GUE. They had the basis (the reputation of founders amongst their specific specialist community) to begin issuing specialist activity cards. They began with cave, then generic technical... and then expanded to recreational. UTD have done the same following GUE's model. Neither could have leapt straight into issuing recreational level certifications - they developed acceptance and recognition first in specialist spheres, then expanded as their mainstream recognition grew.
Also look at a guy like Steve Bogearts. His 'reputation' in the sidemount community made it practicable for him to offer his own certifications - specifically for sidemount diving activities. His c-cards may, or may not, be recognized by the mainstreams; depending upon which dive shop you walked into around the globe. His qualifications are rig-specific and are indisputable as he is the inventor of that rig. However, he doesn't issue entry-level, generic, qualifications... so any diver he qualifies will already have sufficient core c-cards to access dive shop services wherever they go.
If you want to issue c-cards for open-water/entry-level training, you'd have a hard mountain to climb - especially if you wished them to be recognized globally. The task becomes significantly easier if you restricted your certifications to activity or equipment specific training. Nonetheless, you'd still need (personally, or as a group) a high degree of recognition within that specific/specialist community of divers.
Personally, I think there is much more scope to develop and seek recognition for specialist activities. It'd be much harder to do the same for entry-level or core scuba training.
Take, for instance, an agency like GUE. They had the basis (the reputation of founders amongst their specific specialist community) to begin issuing specialist activity cards. They began with cave, then generic technical... and then expanded to recreational. UTD have done the same following GUE's model. Neither could have leapt straight into issuing recreational level certifications - they developed acceptance and recognition first in specialist spheres, then expanded as their mainstream recognition grew.
Also look at a guy like Steve Bogearts. His 'reputation' in the sidemount community made it practicable for him to offer his own certifications - specifically for sidemount diving activities. His c-cards may, or may not, be recognized by the mainstreams; depending upon which dive shop you walked into around the globe. His qualifications are rig-specific and are indisputable as he is the inventor of that rig. However, he doesn't issue entry-level, generic, qualifications... so any diver he qualifies will already have sufficient core c-cards to access dive shop services wherever they go.
If you want to issue c-cards for open-water/entry-level training, you'd have a hard mountain to climb - especially if you wished them to be recognized globally. The task becomes significantly easier if you restricted your certifications to activity or equipment specific training. Nonetheless, you'd still need (personally, or as a group) a high degree of recognition within that specific/specialist community of divers.
Just to put a bit of a global spin on Jim's history presentation:
LA County started their program in 1954, but others had preceded it.
Specifically:
[FONT=&]1946 CDG[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1948 FFESSM[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1953 SSAC[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1953 BSAC
And before YMCA in 1959 there was also BEFOS in 1957 and CMAS in 1959
[/FONT]
LA County started their program in 1954, but others had preceded it.
Specifically:
[FONT=&]1946 CDG[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1948 FFESSM[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1953 SSAC[/FONT]
[FONT=&]1953 BSAC
And before YMCA in 1959 there was also BEFOS in 1957 and CMAS in 1959
[/FONT]
manni-yunk
Contributor
Before the 300lb gorilla walked in the room, divers clearly knew what they were doing and nobody got hurt.... /sarcasm/
flots am
Contributor
- Messages
- 3,226
- Reaction score
- 1,859
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
That's because he did it wrong. FADI would have been just fine if it was based somewhere the US didn't have an extradition treaty.
I pulled out my Sam's Club card in Grenada and they didn't even give it a second look. The only one that really matters says "Visa" on it.
flots.
Similar threads
