Hose lengths

[RJP]

I remember reading a hair-raising story involving a three-buddy team, all three divers of some renown, where one diver had one buddy breathing off of his long hose, while this same diver was buddy breathing with his second buddy using his short hose: both of this diver's buddies were out of air! This story has always led me to wonder why this 22" standard hasn't been revised to a longer length. Of course, even if diving in only a two-buddy team, if the donor's long hose reg fails, then he will need to buddy breathe his short hose.

I call either BS or stupidity (or a combo of both) in that if you needed to "buddy breath" in this situation and elected to have one diver hanging on to the 7' primary by himself while two others buddy-breathed on the short 22" hose... well then the donor is just as out of it as his two buddies who went OOA. Seems sort of silly.

Secondly, to change the standard to a longer secondary hose to cover the wholly implausible scenario that diver 1 will go OOA on the same dive where diver 2 experiences a catastrophic reg failure on his primary hose is just plain silly. How much longer would you need to make it in order to solve for this scenario? Somewhere around the standard 40" octo hose, right? Having done so, how do you propose to route a 40" backup hose while the second stage is bungied around your neck?

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[rongoodman]

My single tank rig has a 22" Miflex on the secondary, my doubles used to have a 24" until I got a set of Hog regs with the bottom port, now a 22" is Miflex is good for the doubles too.

 

[PfcAJ]

Bingo, RJP. That's a ridiculous scenario.

 

[FireInMyBones]

I call either BS or stupidity (or a combo of both) in that if you needed to "buddy breath" in this situation and elected to have one diver hanging on to the 7' primary by himself while two others buddy-breathed on the short 22" hose... well then the donor is just as out of it as his two buddies who went OOA. Seems sort of silly.

Secondly, to change the standard to a longer secondary hose to cover the wholly implausible scenario that diver 1 will go OOA on the same dive where diver 2 experiences a catastrophic reg failure on his primary hose is just plain silly. How much longer would you need to make it in order to solve for this scenario? Somewhere around the standard 40" octo hose, right? Having done so, how do you propose to route a 40" backup hose while the second stage is bungied around your neck?

It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I was trying to wrap my head around this as well. My other thought is why would they go OOA? Don't they know that is rude?

I am not saying that some one didn't do it, but I would have the two OOA divers buddy breath off of the long hose.

 

[rx7diver]

Here's the link to the story: Setting it straight - The Deco Stop. I think you might need to join TheDecoStop.com to read it. The divers were Bill Gavin, Bill McFaden, and Bill Main. I agree, it is an improbable scenario. Still, if you believe the survivors, it actually took place.

Rather than attempt to convince oneself that this improbable scenario couldn't happen again, one might consider whether a longer short hose might make sharing air in this improbable situation more likely to succeed. I agree that there are always competing considerations when determining "optimal" configurations. It could be that, in the end, a diver may conclude that a longer short hose is optimal for him/her and his/her team.

P.S. This story still makes me shudder.

 

[RJP]

Rather than attempt to convince oneself that this improbable scenario couldn't happen again, one might consider whether a longer short hose might make sharing air in this improbable situation more likely to succeed.

Carrying an extra set of doubles "just in case" would also make sharing air in this improbably situation more likely to succeed, as would installing an h-valve on one post (or both) and hooking up 3-4 second stages "just in case."

The time/effort many people often spend determining how to deal with an unlikely scenario should it occur... would almost universally be better spent determining how to avoid the situation in the first place.

 

[TSandM]

Huh? There is nothing in the Sherwood Schiles story about two people out of gas, and sharing gas on a short hose. As David Rhea told me the story, Schiles had a gas problem and couldn't find a working regulator because he had too many regulators clipped to him, and he didn't know which were attached to working tanks and which were not. He panicked and died. From the link, Gavin gave him a working stage, which didn't help. Lamar was never out of gas at all.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a backup reg on a short hose played any role in that incident.

 

[PfcAJ]

The situation surrounding that dive was WAY outside the scope of anything that can be expected to any degree. There was some charlie foxtrotery going on, by today's standards (high END, questionable procedures).

If (key word here) you do it correctly, there is no earthly way you would need to share the backup reg. Its far more practical, anyway, to have them sharing the longhose. A longer backup hose will just get in the way on normal dives (sticking out, flapping in the breeze, catchin' things).

 

[rx7diver]

Huh? There is nothing in the Sherwood Schiles story about two people out of gas, and sharing gas on a short hose. As David Rhea told me the story, Schiles had a gas problem and couldn't find a working regulator because he had too many regulators clipped to him, and he didn't know which were attached to working tanks and which were not. He panicked and died. From the link, Gavin gave him a working stage, which didn't help. Lamar was never out of gas at all.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a backup reg on a short hose played any role in that incident.

TS&M, you read my message before I corrected the names. I was referring to the McFaden dive (rather than the Schiles dive). You'll have to read down quite a ways in the linked story to find reference to the McFaden dive. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[rx7diver]

RJP and PFcAJ,

I use a 24" short hose when diving a single tank and a Y-valve, and a 26" or 28" short hose when diving double HP 120's--with my Scubapro regs. These sizes seem to be a good compromise for me. They don't hang off my shoulder or flap in the breeze. And they facilitate buddy-breathing quite nicely. I've practiced. (I'm not sure what short hose lengths will work better for me with my Poseidons, though. The lengths will almost certainly be longer, since the short hose routes differently off of my Poseidon first stage, than off my Scubapro first stage.) It could be that I would have a different opinion if I scootered, which I don't.