Horrible Customer Service Experience

[jar546]

Rolled edges on the plate, not bladder. Typo.

You are very condescending and don't realize just how much your attitude is detrimental to the perception of your company.

 

[koozemani]

You are very condescending and don't realize just how much your attitude is detrimental to the perception of your company.

...or vigorously defending a product and company he strongly believes in from an attack he doesn't feel is deserved.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Rolled edges on the plate, not bladder. Typo.

You are very condescending and don't realize just how much your attitude is detrimental to the perception of your company.

You are talking complete nonsense and you don't see why you are perceiving what Tobin is saying as condescending? You have no clue what you are talking about. I have no dog in this fight but when you come in here claiming a wing is Life Support equipment, you tell the reader all they need to know about what you are bringing to this conversation.

 

[ktomlinson]

Was the first bladder injury due to a pinch as well?

 

[redacted]

The inherent problem with this statement is that it is never the fault of the manufacturer. If there is a problem, then it must be the customers fault. How many bladders should I replace? 2, or 3, or 50? There is no way to insure proper quality assurance if your philosophy is that you don't give out faulty equipment. Does one assume a 100% success rate on bladders that are dispensed from the company? Or is it possible that something else has occurred? Or is the customer always wrong?



Let's be clear. I did not speak to you today regarding this issue. I did not speak with you today regarding anything. There was no opportunity to ask you anything. The only problem I am having is with a non functioning bladder in my wing. I do not need assistance with someone telling me not to place heavy objects on a wing. I do not need assistance with someone telling me to not "pinch" the wing. There does not seem to be a way to tell with certainty just how the tears got into the wing. My statement is that my having a bladder issue twice in 2 months seems beyond coincidental. I have no idea how the first tear developed. That's fine. I could see the tear at the top of the bladder. So I paid to have it shipped and repaired. This second issue was near the OPV. I could not see it. But I do not believe that I have created this issue. I have paid for the first issue. I don't think I should have to pay for the second when an exact cause cannot be identified.

If the problem were manufacturing defects what do you think the chances are that you would get two such defective bladders and, yet, not one else is reporting similar experiences. Talk about coincidence!!!!

 

[Rainer]

I've had to have 3-4 DSS bladders replaced (in about that many years). None involved me dropping a plate on them. I'm quite careful about packing them, and travel with the wings and plates separated. In each case, I'm not sure what caused the bladders to leak. I can sympathize with the OP in that it is a frustrating experience (i.e. not knowing why they are leaking). If I'd obviously dropped my plate on the wing, that'd be totally understandable. In each of my cases, I had not. We own or owned wings from other manufacturers and haven't had any such issues.

I do believe DSS has gone to a thicker inner bladder and I don't think we've had a puncture on the newer ones, so hopefully this won't happen again. It certainly does get expensive to have to replace them.

Overall, however, I've been happy with my DSS gear. For reasonably-priced, American-made, innovative dive gear, it's a very good option. Hopefully thicker bladders will help prevent others from having future issues. [Now, if DSS would just start shipping wings with real corrugated hoses... ]

 

[TSandM]

You know, I have a DSS wing on my singles setup. I bought it, used, six years ago. It had probably three hundred or more dives on it then. I've put probably another 500 or so on it since (maybe more). I've dived from boats and from shore, out of a car trunk or a truck bed. I'm not terribly careful with the setup, but I always put it down flat, plate underneath, and I watch carefully when I put a tank into the holders on a boat, because it's so easy to pinch the bottom part of the wing between the plate and the bench. I had a pinch flat the first year, and got a replacement bladder from Tobin. I've had no problems since.

Holes in wings happen. If you've gotten two in such a short time, I'd offer that something in the way you are transporting your gear or setting it up is putting the bladder at risk. I don't think Tobin needs to redesign his wings, as such injuries are not that common. We have, I think, at least five DSS wings, and my pinch flat is the only one we have had.

 

[Jax]

Agree with TSandM. Not only just dropping a plate and wing could cause a pinch, but what if the whole thing is set up and the tank falls over? Smash-pinching a wing (bladder) to a bottom corner of the plate is exactly what would happen.

As for travel - DSS' wings have little rubber connectors, not sex bolts, and the wing may easily be "popped off" to travel separately.

Lastly, what makes me lean in favor of the manufacturer, is that an educated man would put this dispute before the "Court of Internet" -- not a means of resolving the dispute, but to bad-mouth and denigrate the businessman. This is a form of blackmail.

. . . all this over $50 . . . .

 

[ktomlinson]

I see it differently. In cases like this I often wonder what a majority of people think, at this point I am not sure. Here is how I see it. A customer bought multiple products from a company, had a problem with it that he then paid to have fixed. As far as I know he didn't fuss about paying to have it fixed the first time around. He then used the wing one more time and had another problem. He sends it in and is told he will have to pay for it to be repaired again. He decides to gripe about it on a ScubaBoard at which point the manufacturer comes online to not only defend his company, but goes the extra mile of questioning why the OP bought so much product from him in the first place!?! Im not in the manufacturing business, but I would guess that the bladder doesnt cost them $50. That means that they should have some wiggle room on the second repair. I tend to believe that the customer damaged the wing, but that isnt what this is about in my opinion....its about how you incentivise the customer to believe they are dealing with a good company...you can be the best company on earth, but it wont help you get this customer to buy something from you again if you don't know how to politely handle them. Hell, think of whatever you offer him as buying future business (not at this point of course). A word of advise to consumers, buy stuff with an American Express (check to make sure the one you use has these features). If you damage something within the first 90 days they will pay you for it (under $1000 per incident), and if you have a problem with a merchant they will usually resolve it for you.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I see it differently. In cases like this I often wonder what a majority of people think, at this point I am not sure. Here is how I see it. A customer bought multiple products from a company, had a problem with it that he then paid to have fixed. As far as I know he didn't fuss about paying to have it fixed the first time around. He then used the wing one more time and had another problem. He sends it in and is told he will have to pay for it to be repaired again. He decides to gripe about it on a ScubaBoard at which point the manufacturer comes online to not only defend his company, but goes the extra mile of questioning why the OP bought so much product from him in the first place!?!

I asked the OP why he needed 6+ wings because I suspected that some of these wings were not being used by him. Turns out I was right.

I'm not in the manufacturing business, but I would guess that the bladder doesnt cost them $50.

Quite so. Made in the USA, 30 mil Urethane RF welded bladders can't be produced for only $50.

I'd prefer to never have to replace any bladder. Repairs are not a profit center, and they are inconvenient for the customer. That's exactly why we try to educate divers about how to avoid repeated problems. We include a printed insert with repaired wings with tips on how to avoid pinch flats, and it includes a link to this video.

https://www.deepseasupply.com/templates/wingdamage.html

Bladder manufacturing is an expensive undertaking. It requires a lot of very expensive equipment, and the materials are also quite expensive, particularly 30 mil urethane films. These materials are custom made, and have to be ordered and stocked in huge quantities. We get to buy a "mill run" in order to get what we need.

Add to that the costs of disassembly, inspection, reassembly and testing of a wing and $50 is no where close to covering our true costs.

We offer this service to our customers precisely because I prefer to have factory repaired wings in service vs field repaired wings. Wings aren't rocket science, but there are any number of problems that can be avoided by having experienced people assemble and test them.

Tobin