Horizontal Obsession

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Dale C wrote
But Dale, what contact would your buddy have with you? And, what contact would you have with your buddy if YOU were the one below?

I always make it a point to confirm with my buddy that we will rendevous at our decided depth before descending. I actually only swim down vertically about 30-40 ft till my surface bouyancy is overcome then I usually change over to horizontal, turn lights on and begin slowing my descent, so the actual buddy seperation thing in real life doesn't happen (:eyebrow: that much). What it avoids is needing to vent all my DS air to descend and then refilling my DS to take off the squeeze. Another thing it avoids is my descending and then having to ascend when a buddy can't descend. I have no problem going down so I watch to see my buddy is under way and then quickly drop down to join them. Sounds kooky but then again I don't ascend vertically either and haven't used my LP inflator to dump air in a long long time.

wait,
7 pages of replays and none says "Hey man what are you talking about?"

If I am descending I swim mostly vertical head down.
beeeeep.
wrong 1. in that position your bood flow go to increase pressure in your head, so' it's bad for ears equalization and dangerous.
wrong 2. why you swim? you consume more air. deflate the jaket and be horizontal, don't move.

If I am ascending I swim mostly vertical head up.
beeep
wrong 1. why the **** you swim vertical? deflate the jaket and just some kiks in diagonal. use your breathing to correct your bojancy.
wrong 2 if you are vertical you have a difference of pressure on your body, about 0.2 bar from your head to your feet, no good in hard diving

If I am swimming horizontal to the bottom I swim horizontally.
OK, 1 right

If I need to look up I assume a position that allows me to do it comfortably.
yes horizontal with your neck torwards back.

Always horizontal is for dead people.
Talking without knowing is for idiots.

"The horizontal position is often called prone, superman, or skydiver position. For a scuba diver, the horizontal trim is the most efficient way to move through the water. In addition, the horizontal trim provides vertical drag, helping divers maintain a constant depth."

I particularily like the part about talking without knowing is for idiots. Thanks for proving it. I don't have any problems equalizing and I'm not afraid to swim; that's why I'm in the water. If I wanted to "not move" I'd remain in bed.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by captain View Post
OK Boulderjohn I'll bite. What is with this obsession with being horizontal.
What is this obsession with how someone else dives?

I can explain the reference to me. It has nothing to do with how I dive. In another thread captain made a comment about the obsession some divers have with being horizontal. It was a bit off topic, and I suggested it would make a good thread on its own. Hence this thread, which I didn't even look at until now.

I am going to take a somewhat irreverent look at my own practices.

Although I tried to stay in good trim throughout my diving years and was fairly decent at it, things changed when I started taking technical diving classes. Then it became an obsession. Drop your knees, and you'll heard about it. Don't ever make the mistake of dropping your knees down to 179 degrees while you are on camera, or you will be mocked in front of the rest of the class during the film session. Keep that in mind when you are carrying both an AL 80 and an AL 40 under your left arm during filming.

At one point in our early training, we joked that the reason for the obsession was that it would be so much easier to hold your depth and position during deco stops if you didn't have to be 100% horizontal that the course would become too easy and there would not be as much prestige associated with those certifications.

A buddy and I did a dive last autumn on a deep sink hole, and we found a rock shelf with beautiful gypsum crystals scattered in the silt. We spent most of the dive examining them. Later, on the surface, we talked about how much easier it would have been to explore that area if we had not felt compelled to be perfectly horizontal, straining our necks to see what was inches above our heads. We felt had to dive that way even though we had no instructor watching us at the time. He had become that eerie voice that guides bipolar people like the Son of Sam.

This all served me well when I got my cave certification. I am not sure I could have maneuvered through some of those tiny silty passages as well as I did without that obsessive training.

So, getting that perfect horizontal trim at every second of a dive has been a focus of my tech training, perhaps only so that I can do it when I really need to. Once you are with a group that has been trained the same way, peer pressure takes over. (Look at them. They have good trim. Is my trim that good? Gee, I hope so.) Maybe some day I will get that nagging voice out of my head.

Maybe.
 
I always make it a point to confirm with my buddy that we will rendevous at our decided depth before descending. I actually only swim down vertically about 30-40 ft till my surface bouyancy is overcome then I usually change over to horizontal, turn lights on and begin slowing my descent, so the actual buddy seperation thing in real life doesn't happen (that much). What it avoids is needing to vent all my DS air to descend and then refilling my DS to take off the squeeze. Another thing it avoids is my descending and then having to ascend when a buddy can't descend. I have no problem going down so I watch to see my buddy is under way and then quickly drop down to join them. Sounds kooky but then again I don't ascend vertically either and haven't used my LP inflator to dump air in a long long time.


I particularily like the part about talking without knowing is for idiots. Thanks for proving it. I don't have any problems equalizing and I'm not afraid to swim; that's why I'm in the water. If I wanted to "not move" I'd remain in bed.

ok, sorry, I know I have been a little rude, sorry.
I think in a forum sometimes is usefull to exasperate some ideas to have an interesting debate (really, I don't care about how you or everybody else goes underwater.... untill I have to recover the bodies)

you have done 1.000.000 dives and never a problem, nice,
but I've never been bent, but I do decostops. There is theory: if you swim your blood floods faster and you absorb more nitrox and decompression is more complicated. period. so better you don't swim if unnecessary.

if your are with your head down pressure in your ears increase, so if you equalize you increase more and more pression in your ears and why do it withuot reason?

in a cave better little frog kiks, even without silt, for many reasons (not touching stones or buddies, movment microcontrol etc.)
...and so on

I see you go underwater like we do 25 years ago, and probably for you and your diving is OK, but don't say that it's the best way....
evolve, study, don't think your way is the best way possible! (I'm not a DIR guy)

peace and respect
(but it's a forum debate 'bro :-)
 
but in open water you should be in whatever position works best relative to what you're wanting to do.

The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of divers - overweighted, bicycle kicking like mad, at a 45deg angle, and swinging their arms like a windmill - obviously don't KNOW what position works best for them.

Unless what they're "wanting to do" is silt the whole place up and burn through an al80 in 25min.

:cool2:
 
Captain, the horizontal position obsession is a DIR, cave, drysuit thing. Don't worry over it. You don't have a drysuit and you are not cave diving so no worry about fanning the silty floor or controlling the bubble in your suit.

I swim down, I swim around, then I swim back up, to quote myself.

N
 
Captain, the horizontal position obsession is a DIR, cave, drysuit thing.

How odd ... I learned it from my YMCA instructor long before I ever heard of DIR. Since he's also not DIR, nor a cave diver, nor a drysuit diver, I can't imagine why he was so concerned about us not silting up the dive site ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I see you go underwater like we do 25 years ago, and probably for you and your diving is OK, but don't say that it's the best way....
evolve, study, don't think your way is the best way possible! (I'm not a DIR guy)

peace and respect
(but it's a forum debate 'bro :-)

I started diving that way in 1957 because at the time that was how it was done. I evolved to all the modern gear and dived with it for most of my life until I descovered other divers who were interested in diving the old gear so I went back to the old gear about 6 years ago and now rarely use new gear and haven't found any good reason to go back to new gear.
I never have made a statement that my way is the best way but I will say there is no one best way for all types of diving.
 
You don't have a drysuit and you are not cave diving so no worry about fanning the silty floor or controlling the bubble in your suit.

As someone who lives and dives in a very silty Sound, I think it is a matter of courtesy for ALL divers to worry about kicking up silty floors. It is very nice if you can leave the visibility the way you found it.
 
Captain, the horizontal position obsession is a DIR, cave, drysuit thing. Don't worry over it. You don't have a drysuit and you are not cave diving so no worry about fanning the silty floor or controlling the bubble in your suit.

I swim down, I swim around, then I swim back up, to quote myself.

N

To quote the famous American Alfred E Neuman "What, me worry".
Boulderjohn was right it has been an entertaining thread.
 
You don't have a drysuit and you are not cave diving so no worry about fanning the silty floor or controlling the bubble in your suit.

I often find huge clouds of silt at sites from careless divers who do not bother to use propulsion techniques that do not stir up the bottom. It is really annoying so I think ALL divers should take care not to stir up the bottom regardless of whether they are in a cave or not.

At one site I dived, very clear vis on my way through the pond:

4450510464_11b4b40778.jpg


On the way back after some other divers had gotten in:

4450528656_ae93f847bb.jpg
 

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