Homemade Swimmer's Ear formula needed

[DocVikingo]

Hi Larry,

.... only if the rules of fair argument are applied.

You did in fact say, "Neither alcohol, vinegar are bacteriocidal." BillP merely adduced evidence that this was not the case, and he is correct to the best of my knowledge.

I saw nothing in his discussion suggesting that they were agents of choice in sterilizing medical gear or office surfaces, or cleaning surgeons' hands. This is an entirely different topic than prophylactic bactericidal/bacteriostatic agents for the diver's ear, and quite beside the point of the initial inquiry.

Peace.

DocVikingo

 

[BillP]

Hi Larry:

I guess that I'm a bit argumentative tonight too. (big grin)

Laurence Stein DDS once bubbled...


Dentists used to wipe down their drills with isopropyl alcohol following use. THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A REALLY BAD IDEA. The only acceptable way is heat sterilization. 24 hours of glutaraldeyde is acceptable on certain plastics but disposable is recommended.

While I do autoclave my instruments in my office to sterilize them, and glutaraldehyde is indeed used in some instances to disinfect instruments (but not by me) I would not recommend that you try to autoclave yourself or that divers try to put glutaraldehyde in their ears. We're talking ears, not instruments here. Skin requires other methods to reduce bacterial counts so autoclaves and glutaraldehyde are a bit off-topic.

Laurence Stein DDS once bubbled...

Finally, you don't see your basic surgeons washing with alcohol to clean their hands...because it's not enough. They resort to surgical scrubs with iodine, betadine, chlorhexidine, iodophor, etc.

While I would hate to debate Goodman and Gilman on the efficacy of ethanol as a bacteriocidal agent, it is NOT considered appropriate to use this prior to surgery for washing hands or cleaning instruments. I dare say you wouldn't want my hands and instruments in your mouth if all I used was alcohol, you agree?

Weeeellll, with all due respect, no I don't really agree. Actually alcohol is quite an effective skin prep for surgery, there are quite a few alcohol products out there to prep your hands before surgery, and I see quite of few of "my basic surgeons" using them on a daily basis. I don't use them myself because they dry my skin too much and I don't believe that they persist as long as some of the other preps you mentioned, but alcohol based preps are quite appropriate to use before surgery.

None of the preps that you mentined sterilize the skin- they're not intended to. But alcohol based preps do an excellent job of reducing the bacterial count to acceptable levels for surgery. And frankly I would rather see you use one of the alcohol quick-preps on your hands rather than do an incomplete (short) betadine scrub before you work in my mouth any day. (But you're right, I'd expect you to autoclave your instruments.)

You can find an article on alcohol based skin preps at:

http://www.slackinc.com/general/iche/stor1001/10bry.htm

And here's an ad for an alcohol based surgical handscrub called Triseptin®. It's just ethyl alcohol, emollients, and preservatives. The ad says it works quicker and better than chlorhexidine or Betadine, but I've tried it and I don't like it. See:

http://www.healthpoint.com/content/infec/infec_triseptin_main.htm

There are several other alcohol based skin scrubs too.

HTH,

Bill

BTW, having said that, I don't care for too much alcohol in ear drops for the same reason I don't like to prep my hands with alcohol based preps- it's too drying. Triseptin makes my skin crack and therefore I think it would increase the risk of me giving or getting a disease in surgery. Same thing with ears- dry cracked skin without cerumen = bad. It's OK with me if others want to use dilute alcohol in their ear drops if it doesn't bother them, though.

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

I tripped over semantics and was argumentative. Disinfection and sterilization are different.

I just didn't want to fall into the trap of thinking that alcohol is a "good" bacteriocidal agent. Especially after OSHA got done with hanging dental offices out to dry after that wacko dentist allegedly murdered his patients with AIDS. It took years for the government and the CDC to admit their screw up. It also took $$$ to OSHAize our offices. IMHO it's not a great disinfectant.

Especially because it can predispose to the drying and cracking of the skin and lead to even further problems like you have mentioned.

I have been surprised by the independent studies on the efficacy of most disinfectants. Most don't work as advertised.

Larry Stein

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

That patients put gluaraldehyde in their ears or autoclave their bodies--well for some people I've seen, it might help.

I mentioned the VoSol HC because, while it's not the same as Domboro, it stinks just as bad and it does acidify the external ear. I have used it and it doesn't dry my ears out like alcohol/vinegar nor does it sting. With Domboro
no longer available, it seems like a "close" choice along with an anti-inflammatory.

I don't know why the Domboro is still listed on the Bayer page. Type in Domboro and do a search--you'll find it.

This is why your the Docs and I'm the Dentist.

Good night everyone,

Larry Stein

 

[nickjb]

DocVikingo once bubbled...
Hi JT2,

<snip>

If you want to go with a post-dive mix, I suggest trying a mixture of 1/3 white vinegar, 1/3 distilled water & 1/3 mineral oil.

Best regards.

DocVikingo

I shall try this.

Does anyone know some UK names for the ingredients? I don't think it is a good idea to buy mineral oil from Halfords

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

nickjb once bubbled...


I shall try this.

Does anyone know some UK names for the ingredients? I don't think it is a good idea to buy mineral oil from Halfords

You should be able to get mineral oil at your pharmacy (chemist) or health food store. It also goes by the following names...Agoral®, Kondremul Plain®, Milkinol®, Neo-Cultol®, Petrogalar Plain®

Stay away for Mobil and Penzol

Larry Stein

 

[Mad Dog 7]

I mix 50% alcohol and 50% white vinigar , with a few drops of boric acid and or sweet oil . I put this in an 8 oz. spray bottle . I spray my ears before And after dives . I spray my feet sometimes too . This disinfects & the sweet oil prevents dry socket ears . Many I know use this ..

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Hi Mad Dog 7,

Sweet oil is olive oil for those of you who don't know.

It can go rancid so I don't know how long this formula is useful for.

I would also be very careful about SPRAYING anything into an ear canal. If you seal the canal accidentally, you will overpressure the ear. You can usually drop from a spray bottle into the ear though.

Over the years I have used 50:50 rubbing alcohol/white vinegar. The boric acid is used in OTC preparations. My ENT told me the mixture.

Larry Stein

 

[Mad Dog 7]

I think I will cut out the sweet oil , maybe use just 50% - 50% alcohol & white viniger . I have used red wine vinigar , but it cost more & discolors aftera while ....

 

[Laurence Stein DDS]

Hey! You realize that if you leave out the alcohol, leave the vinegar and olive oil and just add garlic you've got....salad dressing.

Larry Stein