Theres a good article on the DAN web site
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=49
http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/articles/article.asp?articleid=49
Homemade Swimmer's Ear formula needed
- Thread starter JT2
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While I obviously agree with the reducing/eliminating alcohol part, the focus on Otic Domeboro is of little current use as this medication went out of production several years ago & has no replacement of which I am aware. Too bad as it was great, if costly, stuff.
Best regards,
DocVikingo
Best regards,
DocVikingo
lakesdiver
Contributor
Doc,
The function of the mineral oil is...what, please?
Thanks,
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Morning Large,
.... is to coat the ear canal thus providing a barrier between the skin and noxious microbes in the water, as well as to counteract the drying effect of the ear being repeatedly rinsed with water during a dive.
Make sense?
Best regards.
DocVikingo
.... is to coat the ear canal thus providing a barrier between the skin and noxious microbes in the water, as well as to counteract the drying effect of the ear being repeatedly rinsed with water during a dive.
Make sense?
Best regards.
DocVikingo
When I was a kid if there was water nearby I was in it. My pediatrician at the time told my mom the A/V mixture would work as good as any store bought and everynight at bed time I would get a dose. Has not seemed to hurt my hearing at all, My wife says that I have the hearing of a dog. Mmmm..... Think she is trying to hint about something?
Wildbill
:copper:
Wildbill
:copper:
Laurence Stein DDS
Medical Moderator
DocVickingo,
I've seen modified Burrow's solution as a tablet in the surgical supply stores. In fact, I have some here at the house. How would you suggest mixing it for ears.
I believe the otic version of modified Burrow's Solution has either glycerine, ethylene glycol or propylene glycol in it as both a moisturizer and a drying agent. The tri-alcohols form an azeotrope with water remaining in the ear (forming a solution with a single boiling point). It, in essence, ties the water up with the trialcohol. When mixed with water the tablet forms aluminum acetate, is an astringent. It's pH is low enough to prevent many bacteria from living in the ear canal.
Neither alcohol, vinegar are bacteriocidal. The pH of vinegar can be bacteriostatic. Peroxide can kill bacteria sensitive to free oxygen and the bubbles mechanically help to remove earwax. Alcohol, as you have pointed out also dries the skin and removes the cerumen. The removal of the cerumen can leave the canal more susceptible to infection.
BTW, Domboro Otic is still listed on the internet by Bayer so I'm not sure its out of production.
If you can find the Domboro Otic, the proper way is to apply it for several minutes in each ear. It's not a quick rinse. Q-tips should not be introduced into the ear canal proper--it can force ear wax back into the canal making a plug or can damage the eardrum.
Larry Stein
I've seen modified Burrow's solution as a tablet in the surgical supply stores. In fact, I have some here at the house. How would you suggest mixing it for ears.
I believe the otic version of modified Burrow's Solution has either glycerine, ethylene glycol or propylene glycol in it as both a moisturizer and a drying agent. The tri-alcohols form an azeotrope with water remaining in the ear (forming a solution with a single boiling point). It, in essence, ties the water up with the trialcohol. When mixed with water the tablet forms aluminum acetate, is an astringent. It's pH is low enough to prevent many bacteria from living in the ear canal.
Neither alcohol, vinegar are bacteriocidal. The pH of vinegar can be bacteriostatic. Peroxide can kill bacteria sensitive to free oxygen and the bubbles mechanically help to remove earwax. Alcohol, as you have pointed out also dries the skin and removes the cerumen. The removal of the cerumen can leave the canal more susceptible to infection.
BTW, Domboro Otic is still listed on the internet by Bayer so I'm not sure its out of production.
If you can find the Domboro Otic, the proper way is to apply it for several minutes in each ear. It's not a quick rinse. Q-tips should not be introduced into the ear canal proper--it can force ear wax back into the canal making a plug or can damage the eardrum.
Larry Stein
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Hi Larry,
I'm fairly certain that they ceased manufacture in Dec '00. Remaining stocks were to be sold, but likely would be dated now even if you could locate some. Company had no plans to remarket this or a similar product last as I knew. Please let me know if I'm mistaken--I could be.
Have not seen the tablets to which you refer, but for otic application I believe that you'd want about a 1/50 to 1/40 dilution, but I very much doubt that the manufacturer would endorse it's use in such a fashion.
I'm not certain what otic versions of modified Burrow's Solution you're referring to, but Otic Domeboro contained only 2 percent acetic acid, water, aluminum acetate, sodium acetate & boric acid. I've seen a couple of other similar products over the years, but none contained either glycerin or glycol. Perhaps you could direct me to these.
Best regards.
DocVikingo
I'm fairly certain that they ceased manufacture in Dec '00. Remaining stocks were to be sold, but likely would be dated now even if you could locate some. Company had no plans to remarket this or a similar product last as I knew. Please let me know if I'm mistaken--I could be.
Have not seen the tablets to which you refer, but for otic application I believe that you'd want about a 1/50 to 1/40 dilution, but I very much doubt that the manufacturer would endorse it's use in such a fashion.
I'm not certain what otic versions of modified Burrow's Solution you're referring to, but Otic Domeboro contained only 2 percent acetic acid, water, aluminum acetate, sodium acetate & boric acid. I've seen a couple of other similar products over the years, but none contained either glycerin or glycol. Perhaps you could direct me to these.
Best regards.
DocVikingo
BillP
Senior Member
(Bacteriocidal = germicidal = kills germs)
Weeellllll....sorta.
From Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics:
"(Ethanol) is bacteriocidal to all of the common pathogenic" (disease causing) "bacteria."
And speaking of isopropyl alcohol (typical rubbing alcohol)- "In concentrations above 70%, isopropanol is slightly more germicidal than ethanol. Isopropanol is used as a vehicle for other germicidal compounds, and it increases their efficacies."
And on acetic acid (vinegar): "This acid in 5% concentrations is bacteriocidal to many types of microorganisms and bacteriostatic at lower concentrations."
I have both 70% isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) and 5% acetic acid (ordinary white wine vinegar) in my cupboards at home. Alcohol doesn't kill every kind of bacteria, it is fairly ineffective against fungi and spores, and it becomes less effective when you dilute it, but it is bacteriocidal. Straight 5% vinegar is also bacteriocidal, but once you dilute it and put it in your ear it will likely just be bacteriostatic (stops bacteria's growth without killing them) as you said. Dunno how bacteriocidal a rubbing alcohol/vinegar mix is. It would be interesting to look at if someone hasn't looked already.
HTH,
Bill
Laurence Stein DDS
Medical Moderator
Bill,
I meant to say vinegar is bacteriostatic and alcohol is not very bacteriocidal. The pH of vinegar inhibits the growth of
bacteria. Ethanol is slightly bacteriocidal but it is technically listed as an anticeptic.
Dentists used to wipe down their drills with isopropyl alcohol following use. THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A REALLY BAD IDEA. The only acceptable way is heat sterilization. 24 hours of glutaraldeyde is acceptable on certain plastics but disposable is recommended.
Alcohol seems to work because it is a good degreaser and cleaner. You literally wipe away most of the unwanted bugs.
That's why you use it before an injection--as a cleaner and anticeptic. FYI our good old friend Lysol disinfectant is hopital grade ONLY if it contains ethanol for surface disinfection. There are a number of different Lysol sprays. Some contain our old friend benzalkylonium chloride. Despite it promises, quarterary ammonium compounds don't do a good job on surfaces. Even with ethanol, you must first clean the surfaces with soap to remove proteins and then spray with Lysol. It must be left in place for 10 minutes before being WIPED AWAY AGAIN. Chlorox solution can also be used this way but stains and discolors many plastics. Phenolics can also work...but only after precleaning
Finally, you don't see your basic surgeons washing with alcohol to clean their hands...because it's not enough. They resort to surgical scrubs with iodine, betadine, chlorhexidine, iodophor, etc.
While I would hate to debate Goodman and Gilman on the efficacy of ethanol as a bacteriocidal agent, it is NOT considered appropriate to use this prior to surgery for washing hands or cleaning instruments. I dare say you wouldn't want my hands and instruments in your mouth if all I used was alcohol, you agree?
The gold standard for bacteriocidal cleaning agents is to be tuberculocidal, sporocidal and fungicidal and even then the kill time is supposed to be 10 minutes. Alcohol, especially during short exposures doesn't come close. I do agree that it potentiates other gemacides but for the purposes of hospital grade gemicide or more precisely, disinfection agent, alcohols don't make the grade. Aldehydes take 24 hours on precleaned surfaces but, hey...they are carcinogens.
So much for whiskey on the knife before removing that danged bullet from your friend's shoulder.
DocV...I'm at home and have last year's (2001) PDR here...It still lists otic Domboro solution by Bayer. They also list VoSol HC, by Wallace. It contains acetic acid and hydrocortisone, USP. I don't know if the 2002 PDR lists otic Domboro but it is still listed on the web by Bayer--I checked today.
Just call me argumentative today...sorry.
Regards,
Larry Stein
I meant to say vinegar is bacteriostatic and alcohol is not very bacteriocidal. The pH of vinegar inhibits the growth of
bacteria. Ethanol is slightly bacteriocidal but it is technically listed as an anticeptic.
Dentists used to wipe down their drills with isopropyl alcohol following use. THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A REALLY BAD IDEA. The only acceptable way is heat sterilization. 24 hours of glutaraldeyde is acceptable on certain plastics but disposable is recommended.
Alcohol seems to work because it is a good degreaser and cleaner. You literally wipe away most of the unwanted bugs.
That's why you use it before an injection--as a cleaner and anticeptic. FYI our good old friend Lysol disinfectant is hopital grade ONLY if it contains ethanol for surface disinfection. There are a number of different Lysol sprays. Some contain our old friend benzalkylonium chloride. Despite it promises, quarterary ammonium compounds don't do a good job on surfaces. Even with ethanol, you must first clean the surfaces with soap to remove proteins and then spray with Lysol. It must be left in place for 10 minutes before being WIPED AWAY AGAIN. Chlorox solution can also be used this way but stains and discolors many plastics. Phenolics can also work...but only after precleaning
Finally, you don't see your basic surgeons washing with alcohol to clean their hands...because it's not enough. They resort to surgical scrubs with iodine, betadine, chlorhexidine, iodophor, etc.
While I would hate to debate Goodman and Gilman on the efficacy of ethanol as a bacteriocidal agent, it is NOT considered appropriate to use this prior to surgery for washing hands or cleaning instruments. I dare say you wouldn't want my hands and instruments in your mouth if all I used was alcohol, you agree?
The gold standard for bacteriocidal cleaning agents is to be tuberculocidal, sporocidal and fungicidal and even then the kill time is supposed to be 10 minutes. Alcohol, especially during short exposures doesn't come close. I do agree that it potentiates other gemacides but for the purposes of hospital grade gemicide or more precisely, disinfection agent, alcohols don't make the grade. Aldehydes take 24 hours on precleaned surfaces but, hey...they are carcinogens.
So much for whiskey on the knife before removing that danged bullet from your friend's shoulder.
DocV...I'm at home and have last year's (2001) PDR here...It still lists otic Domboro solution by Bayer. They also list VoSol HC, by Wallace. It contains acetic acid and hydrocortisone, USP. I don't know if the 2002 PDR lists otic Domboro but it is still listed on the web by Bayer--I checked today.
Just call me argumentative today...sorry.
Regards,
Larry Stein
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Evening Larry,
.... that I could find.
If Otic Domeboro was in fact discontinued in Dec of '00, wouldn't be surprising to see it listed in the '01 edition, would it?
Yes, VoSol HC is available, but it's really not all that similar to Otic Domeboro, nor does it contain either glycerin or glycol.
Am I missing something?
Best regards.
DocVikingo
.... that I could find.
If Otic Domeboro was in fact discontinued in Dec of '00, wouldn't be surprising to see it listed in the '01 edition, would it?
Yes, VoSol HC is available, but it's really not all that similar to Otic Domeboro, nor does it contain either glycerin or glycol.
Am I missing something?
Best regards.
DocVikingo
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