Hog Regulator Combo or get something better ???

[JohnN]

It's amazing how many people will treat a statement of opinion as a statement of fact. I used to think that this was an overt attempt to misconstrue someone's statement, but I don't think that anymore. People will read into any statement that which allows them to accept or reject it as it compares to their own perceived ideology. People who agree with them are viewed with rose colored glasses. People who don't agree with them are oft vilified and ridden out on the proverbial cyber rail. It really doesn't have to be "either/or" and we can all get along. After all, we share more in common than not.

OK. . . hypothetical situation. You have an earache late Friday night and you visit your local Urgent Care center.

While there, two people offer you a diagnosis. The first is a MA (Medical assistant) who shows you to the room. The second is the Dr. that looks into your ear.

You seem to be suggesting that both 'opinions' should have equal weight. I maintain that the internet is just like the real world, and someone's pedigree is a valuable proxy to the value of their thoughts.

 

[The Chairman]

How can he have an opinion about HOG

He's a diver. He doesn't denigrate HOG, he has simply pointed out they, as of yet, have not become mainstream. I take great pride in helping Chris make the transition from being just a pipe dream into an internationally recognized brand. I can say that about a couple of manufacturers now.

 

[chrpai]

I had a new diver read this whole thread. He pointed out that the " trouble " started when I suggested that the Op get a Brand name reg.

Here on SCUBAboard, Chris has done an excellent job of making hog a brand name, however around the world what are the top Brand name regs.

Do you really believe hog is one of them, or edge?

I have been diving for almost 40 years and I had not seen or heard of hog or edge till I joined SB last Nov.

I do not have an opinion about hog or edge because I, personally, have never been diving with either one.

Yes I do have a biased towards Scubapro, that is the reason why I sell Scubapro as the top Brand name at Beaver Divers.

If you don't know anything about Hog, how can you honestly suggest that YOUR brand is better?

I don't care about "brand names". I've dive Hog and I can say it's a really good quality piece of equipment.

 

[The Chairman]

OK. . . hypothetical situation.

Caveat lector: Let the reader beware. It's important that you learn to sift the gold from the dross on any internet site. However, it's also important not to impugn motives which are not there when someone disagrees with you. I find it's important to read AND comprehend rather than just read and react. I don't come to any forum for a slap down: I come to learn. I have learned from Casey and from Chris. I have learned something from most everyone in this thread. If I haven't gotten to, I hope to be able to dive with each and every one of you at some point. Heck, you already know where to find me. The pool is almost always open. If not, then the bar certainly is.

 

[chrpai]

He doesn't denigrate HOG

Actually I saw a post where he said he saw one once and "wasn't impressed".

 

[ams511]

You are showing your ignorance and perhaps innocence with respect to Internet forums with this post. Since when did someone have to have experience to have an opinion? That has never been the case (online or otherwise). People have always spouted off their opinions on things they know nothing about.

FTR, I now find Beaverdivers posting habits "OK" because he is no longer lacing every post with a slimy sales pitch. At one point, pretty much every post was a sales pitch that got very annoying. Good on you for turning the corner. You have a lot to offer I am sure and now more people can eventually see it.

Steve I disagree. Beaver is a diving professional, if he wants to spew BS then he is no better than any other LDS saying their product is the best because that is all they sell. He should save that for the newbies that wander into his shop rather than people who have been around the block a few times. If he wants express why he feels Scubapro is a better choice than HOG then he should know the pros and cons of both products. A good businessman should know his competition.

FTR, I agree he has toned down the overt selling and is not nearly as annoying as he once was.

 

[The Chairman]

Actually I saw a post where he said he saw one once and "wasn't impressed".

Yeah, he was diving with me in the Sea of Cortez and I am not surprised that he wasn't impressed. I had a high pressure seat o-ring blow. Notice he didn't say you would surely DIE if you used one. I don't know if Chris is going to let me have any more prototypes after that. I am pretty darn hard on regs!

FWIW, he was the only other diver with redundant air on that trip.

 

[ScubaSteve]

......then he is no better than any other LDS saying their product is the best.......

While I find the relentless "HOG is BETTER" and "SP is BETTER" arguing annoying, why would you assume that BD is any better than any other LDS? Just because he has lots of dives? Because he sells so much SP product that they have given him the Platinum dealer level? Because he has an opinion on things he knows nothing about? He is a person posting on ScubaBoard and that is all. He is no better than any other LDS. Every LDS has good and bad about them.....he is no different. The only thing I can say about him is that he has more time to post than most shops.....that is why his shenanigans are known so widely across the board. This is only bad if you, the reader, interprets his posts that way.

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

Why shouldn't he post here? Just because you disagree with him? Why have a forum if we all have to agree?

That's a big problem on the internet and ScubaBoard is not immune. If someone presents a differing view point, some decry that they are just trolls while others feel compelled to pummel them into submission with attacks on their character, intelligence and/or origins of birth. The "Or get something better?" caveat of the question opened this up to anyone who thinks that any other reg is superior than the HOG reg. He's not bashing HOG when he suggests that ScubaPro is better: He's expressing his opinion.

That's not the issue at all. The issue is he will make statements veiled in "expertise" (my words). When in fact he has none in this frame of reference (op). Thus, why post in this thread? It has nothing to do with whether I disagree with him. I have not said anything (that I can recall) against SP, but I do know that what I dive (AL, HOG) worked well for me w/o issues (so far). I was listening to a gent last w/e at the quarry with some new SP gear. He paid $700 for his SP stuff (reg set). I didn't say a single word about his choices, they are his, but the $300 I have invested in my set up makes me scratch my head about why people spend so much. That is for the end consumer to rationalize.

The long and short, at least from my POV, is that because of his mannerisms and methods, if I were to EVER decide to buy SP gear, guess where I won't trade?

As stated above, he has never dove a HOG reg set, so therefore, he can't make a qualified statement about whether SP is any better or not. It would probably have been much better for him in the end to not have said anything. Really, sometimes not saying anything is better.

I would suggest that HOG send him a reg set to dive for a while, on the promise of a return when he is done. BD may have no interest in this for whatever reason, and of course we can only conclude why if he declines. Much like the debate over the voter ID, most can easily conclude why those that don't want the ID requirement promote that ideal..... Just saying.

And for the record, I have absolutely no issue with someone disagreeing with me, provided it is a respectful disagreement.

Mitch

 

[ams511]

While I find the relentless "HOG is BETTER" and "SP is BETTER" arguing annoying, why would you assume that BD is any better than any other LDS? Just because he has lots of dives? Because he sells so much SP product that they have given him the Platinum dealer level? Because he has an opinion on things he knows nothing about? He is a person posting on ScubaBoard and that is all. He is no better than any other LDS. Every LDS has good and bad about them.....he is no different. The only thing I can say about him is that he has more time to post than most shops.....that is why his shenanigans are known so widely across the board. This is only bad if you, the reader, interprets his posts that way.

I don't assume he is better, I assume he is smart enough to realize that he is not talking to newbies and we know a thing or two.

---------- Post Merged at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:17 AM ----------

He's a diver. He doesn't denigrate HOG, he has simply pointed out they, as of yet, have not become mainstream. I take great pride in helping Chris make the transition from being just a pipe dream into an internationally recognized brand. I can say that about a couple of manufacturers now.

Doc how many other users do you defend on a regular basis, especially dive professionals? Probably not too many, that should tell you he is doing something wrong.

While HOG is not mainstream, neither is Subgear. Again, what are the advantages of a mainstream brand? Oxycheq and DSS (or even Halcyon) are not exactly mainstream, does that make their wings inferior to more established brands?