HOG Questions/Musings

[Nemrod]

Michael, yes, I have parts, I bought enough parts to supply me and I am awfully stingy with the remaining supply as they are getting slim--but the good news is that the second stage never hardly ever needs a rebuild and the first stage is a generic MKV clone and easy enough to get parts for. That set of regulators has been well beyond 200 feet a number of times. You see, I don't really divide diving into Tech and Rec. It is just all diving to me and I select the appropriate gear from my stockpile for the mission. By the way, I have the original T2100 which is all metal and a very sweet breather and slightly smaller than the plastic versions known as the B model which had a plastic housing and metal innards and the last BX model which was essentially all plastic/composite. The BX units are to be avoided. The B and previous all metal versions perform well. I could just have easily put my super sweet all metal Voit MR12II circa 1970ish) sets on it with my self modified Mares MR12 first stage--I overbored the inside orifice with a custom machine pin and button assembly made and designed by myself--a one and only. They are very relaible units and do not exhibit any of the quirkiness the little Teknas are known for, breath easy at depth and have little need for anything but routine cleanings.

Wow, please, no fights, but darn, y'all are the experts and still there seems to be no agreement as to what is what. I think, unlike one post above, DIR and Hogatianism does exist outside of cave diving when the principles of streamlining, redundancy, simplicity are adhered to. A quicklook through dive catalogs will reveal the influences of Hogartianism. All the multitude of D rings and clips and the reemergence of back mount BCs, wings or whatever you wish to call them. I distinctly recall being nearly thrown off a boat in about 1984 with that very wing shown in the pics above because the PadI operation claimed they were dangerous and "Illegal". I told him then, as I offered to swim the three miles back to shore if he threw me off the boat, that someday everyone would dive wings/back mounts and that jackets would be relagated to beginners--he laughed-----now I am laughing. N

 

[daniel f aleman]

I think, unlike one post above, DIR and Hogatianism does exist outside of cave diving when the principles of streamlining, redundancy, simplicity are adhered to.

Principles that existed long before Hog and DIR. And do continue to exist in parts of the world where nobody has ever heard of Hogarthian, or DIR, or couldn't find Florida on a map.

I was NACD cave certified in 1982, you want to tell me about it?

 

[Nemrod]

"I was NACD cave certified in 1982, you want to tell me about it?"

Not sure I follow your question? as I was asking a question and your answer is a question---hmmmm----? Are you asking me if I want you to tell me about it? or if you want me to tell you about cave diivng? or are you asking me if I know where Cancun is?

I did my first cave diving in about 1968/69, by the time I began college at a school on the northern edge of Florida Spring country I had completed numerous cave dives. Back then we had to find the sprngs in the middle of the woods with four wheel drive or my old VW Bus--lol. Our equipment was home made and by 1980 when I met my wife I had become a very experienced cave diver. Now, I admire the progress that has been achieved since I quit that facet of our sport. The progress has been huge and the safety emphasis and new equipments has allowed deep penetrations that were considered impossible once to become nearly routine. I certainly admire these new cave divers regardless of whatever acronym befits their diving style. In 1970 as I crawled upside down along the corridor at Little River with home made lights and lines and reels using cobbled together doubles, nobody cared if I was cave certified or knew what a NACD was because none of that existed and if it did we did not know or care. In any case, I no longer cave dive and so my initial questions about the pocket, the light, the SMB and reel were for those who use Hogarthian inspired rigs for open water diving. N

 

[daniel f aleman]

"I was NACD cave certified in 1982, you want to tell me about it?"

Not sure I follow your question?

I was simply responding to your statement that Hog and DIR exist outside of cave. They are cave diving systems. The fact that they advocate "streamling" (as compared to what?), redundancy (buddy, octo, pony?) and, simplicity (Hello, 1970), is not exclusive to their systems. I use rigs in the open water diving that are similar in style to a contemporary Hog rig, but from which they are not derived. Your question is a non-starter.

 

[*Floater*]

In any case, I no longer cave dive and so my initial questions about the pocket, the light, the SMB and reel were for those who use Hogarthian inspired rigs for open water diving. N

The DIR configuration usually doesn't include pockets on the harness, though people sometimes add weight pockets when needed. Instead DIR divers tend to use thigh pockets. The small smb and spool go in the right thigh pocket, or you can put the smb in a (halcyon) mc pocket on the backplate. The left thigh pocket is generally used for backup equipment such as backup mask. The backup lights are clipped the way you have them, though usually pointing the other way since people tend to use lights with snaps at the back end.

Why don't you cave dive anymore, or why doesn't your wife(?) want you to?

 

[Nemrod]

"Why don't you cave dive anymore, or why doesn't your wife(?) want you to?"

Thanks for the response, well, there is no one answer, she asked me not to and I suppose her having a cousin who is paralyzed from a cave diving incident (unrelated to me before I knew her) and that she became my primary dive buddy for many years pretty much distracted me from cave diving. Now I have other interests in diving aside from caves. My very first sorta cave dive was probably about 67 at the Blue Hole on Ichetucknee (sp). Not really a cave dive but awfully fun. Scrambling down that chimney against all the flow was something else. After that we went looking for every hole in the limestone we could find and fit into.

"I was simply responding to your statement that Hog and DIR exist outside of cave. They are cave diving systems. The fact that they advocate "streamling" (as compared to what?), redundancy (buddy, octo, pony?) and, simplicity (Hello, 1970), is not exclusive to their systems. I use rigs in the open water diving that are similar in style to a contemporary Hog rig, but from which they are not derived. Your question is a non-starter."

If DIR does not exist outside of caves then why does not GUE call themselves C(ave)UE and why do I meet guys on boats all the time that identify themselves as DIR and I know they are not going into a cave? Never mind, there is no answer that matters to me anymore and further that is why I posted in this forum and not the DIR because I was more interested in Hogathian thoughts.

"streamlined"

--compared to jackets and huge consoles and dangly stuff hanging all over which is what I am trying to avoid. I am still learning, I realize that after all this time, that is why I ask questions and it is probably why I am still around and functional unlike a few others I have known, sadly. Well, thanks for the answers, will look into pockets on the thigh, course many warm water locations do not warrant a wet suit to glue them to. Sincerely thanks, the answers and comments will be considered and are appreciated from each. N

 

[Soggy]

I was simply responding to your statement that Hog and DIR exist outside of cave. They are cave diving systems.

While DIR developed in the cave diving community, it is no longer just a "cave diving system" and it applies to all areas of diving. Living in the North East, many of the DIR divers I know have never been anywhere near a cave. Many have never had a set of doubles on their back, either. I suggest you go to the DIR forum and read "Cave Diver's" sticky post, "What is DIR?" at the top of the forum because it appears you don't have any idea what DIR is.

 

[grazie42]

Let me just preface by saying that I´m not DIR and perhaps not HOG either (though I try to be, within the limitations I impose).

About your setup, my suggestion would be to get one of those DR thigh pockets (or equiv). When I dive dry I use both the pocket of my DS and an "extra" thigh pocket. That allows me to keep the harness clear of everything but lights and cuttingtools, everything else is stowed (liftbag bungeed to plate).

To me that means that I have easy, unhindered access to all my safetyequipment and that other things like reels, spools, smbs etc are all within easy reach but also out of the way...

I´ve found having anything clipped to the buttring is a PITA (literally) and that getting to the stuff I had there was a struggle...

As always YMMV...

 

[*Floater*]

I have one of the dive-rite thigh pockets, and it's okay - I may or may not buy another one. It's a little annoying to always put it on and take it off, but since I travel and wear different wetsuits I don't want to glue pockets on - though it's an option I'm considering. My drysuit, which is in the mail now, has the pockets attached.

The fifthD-X pockets look real nice. In hindsight I wish I had ordered those rather than the generic pockets my drysuit will come with. The cheapest pockets I've seen for sale ($20) can be found here. And you can probably make them yourself for even less.

 

[TSandM]

will look into pockets on the thigh, course many warm water locations do not warrant a wet suit to glue them to

I was very intrigued with the X-shorts concept but didn't want to spend $90 on a pair, so I bought a pair of men's board shorts/swim trunks that had velcroed cargo pockets on them. I used them over my wetsuit in Hawaii and they worked quite well, despite looking rather odd. They would be quite useable as swim trunks someplace where you did not want to use a wetsuit as well. The pockets easily held a spool and SMB.