HOG D1, can't unscrew the environmental cap

[Eastman]

Do not put the body in the vise. That won't do any good on the HOG regs because the cap is not screwed onto the body. It's screwed onto the diaphragm clamp and the clamp is screwed onto the body.
And you never clamp a body in a vise. You install a 1st stage handle and clamp that in the vise. If the thing is really frozen, to keep the body from turning, you'd need to clamp the vise tight enough to risk damage to the body.

Yes, if the diaphragm cap turns freely you just need a second C spanner to hold that while you turn the environmental cap..

Please explain how putting the body loosely in a soft jaw vice can hurt the body?

Sure, done improperly damages can occur (just like with most things) but that's about it... Reg bodies are not very delicate besides their thin plating...

 

[blue steal]

Please let us know how it worked out.
I used a pin spanner from DGX. It was on pretty tight the first time I removed it.
I used lube on the threads where I reassembled it.
Good luck.

 

[rsingler]

If the freezer trick didn't work, then my next step would be Aerokroil dripped into the crack between diaphragm clamp and environmental cap. Keep applying as capillary action makes it disappear. Do it for FOUR DAYS before you try again as outlined by @Jim Lapenta above, with one hook spanner in a vise engaging the diaphragm clamp and the other on the environmental cap.

Kano Kroil 8oz Can https://a.co/d/emh9iu5

And while Jim is right about hammering instead of slowly increasing pressure on the spanner, you might consider one more thing before going to penetrating oil.

Put something flat and metallic level on the environmental cap. Set the reg (or the removed clamp/cap combo) on a hard surface and tap the flat metal piece with light-medium force with a hammer. Not hard enough to damage the brass, but firmly.
The flat metal piece protects the cap from a ding while distributing the percussive force. The shock wave from the sharp taps may fracture some of the verdigris crystals locking these parts together. Then try again with your opposing hook spanners. I'd do this before the Kroll Oil.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Yes, if the diaphragm cap turns freely you just need a second C spanner to hold that while you turn the environmental cap..

Please explain how putting the body loosely in a soft jaw vice can hurt the body?

Sure, done improperly damages can occur (just like with most things) but that's about it... Reg bodies are not very delicate besides their thin plating...

You can't put the body in a vice loosely and expect it not to spin. You need the 1st stage handle to prevent that and every decent reg manual I've seen says not to clamp the body.
Clamp the handle in the vise. Not the reg body.
FYI, I've written 7 reg service manuals and trained around 50 HOG reg techs.
I'm also trained on Oceanic/Aeris/Hollis, ScubaPro, Sherwood, and have serviced MARES, and Aqualung regs.
Clamping HP bodies of any kind, even in a soft jawed vise with nothing to stop it from spinning is a no no.
I'm also certified and trained to work on 50,000-85,000 PSI waterjet cutting systems.

 

[Eastman]

You can't put the body in a vice loosely and expect it not to spin. You need the 1st stage handle to prevent that and every decent reg manual I've seen says not to clamp the body.
Clamp the handle in the vise. Not the reg body.
FYI, I've written 7 reg service manuals and trained around 50 HOG reg techs.
I'm also trained on Oceanic/Aeris/Hollis, ScubaPro, Sherwood, and have serviced MARES, and Aqualung regs.
Clamping HP bodies of any kind, even in a soft jawed vise with nothing to stop it from spinning is a no no.
I'm also certified and trained to work on 50,000-85,000 PSI waterjet cutting systems.

1st stage cannot turn due to din post position against jaws.

Not to make light of your credentials as I'm sure you are very qualified but I asked you to explain physically/mechanically how the stage body can be hurt being loosely put in a soft jaw vice and you replied by basically saying because that is always what is said..

This was pretty much the point I was getting at, and simply listing off your resume emphasizes it. Simply because it is always said does not make it black/white or even 100% accurate... this is off topic and unhelpful to OP though so that's all for me.

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah sometimes you have to pull your head out of your books and be practical
My vices have aluminium jaws, wrap the reg in rubber and lever against the din

 

[Jim Lapenta]

1st stage cannot turn due to din post position against jaws.

Not to make light of your credentials as I'm sure you are very qualified but I asked you to explain physically/mechanically how the stage body can be hurt being loosely put in a soft jaw vice and you replied by basically saying because that is always what is said..

This was pretty much the point I was getting at, and simply listing off your resume emphasizes it. Simply because it is always said does not make it black/white or even 100% accurate... this is off topic and unhelpful to OP though so that's all for me.

With a frozen diaphragm clamp or enviro seal, you risk damaging the DIN fitting by putting too much torque on it. The body and the fitting are brass. Forcing the DIN fitting against the jaws can stress the threads on the fitting. The amount of torque that may be required might even be enough to deform the fitting.

 

[JohnN]

All,
I'm the OP. Putting the regulator body in a vice (soft or not) would do no good. I already have a Scubatools first stage handle to hold the body stationary. I hope we can all agree this is the best method of holding the body while trying to separate the diaphragm clamp and the environmental seal. The environmental seal is corroded to the diaphragm clamp and the pair unscrews easily from the body

My pin spanners are Scubatools #6 rather than #5's, so I'm giving up a little leverage, but I don't think that is the issue. The pair is going back into the cleaner for another session. I have some penetrating oil (PB Blaster) in the shop, that is probably my next step

 

[-JD-]

All,
I'm the OP. Putting the regulator body in a vice (soft or not) would do no good. I already have a Scubatools first stage handle to hold the body stationary. I hope we can all agree this is the best method of holding the body while trying to separate the diaphragm clamp and the environmental seal. The environmental seal is corroded to the diaphragm clamp and the pair unscrews easily from the body

My pin spanners are Scubatools #6 rather than #5's, so I'm giving up a little leverage, but I don't think that is the issue. The pair is going back into the cleaner for another session. I have some penetrating oil (PB Blaster) in the shop, that is probably my next step

Suggestion - If you have enough penetrating oil ...

Put the seized ring set in a closely matching "scrap" container ("Dixie"/Solo" cup, spray-can cap, etc) with enough penetrant to reach the seam, then put that in the water bath to assist in working it in.

ETA: (Cycles - short on, then soak, repeat.)
EETA: (Maybe a few of Rob's love-taps along the way between cycles)

You are probably going to need an new environmental sealing diaphragm when all this is over.

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah now back to the books beating brains without experience

Lets say of 100+ regs I own 1/4 have been in the vice, 10 times

So of the 250 times my rubber wrapped regs have been firmly
clamped in the vice with the din or yoke, only to stop the spin
none have been marred or thread bent crushed or messed up
before this thread was 5 mins old, I would have this reg, apart

Our vices also gives youse a far firmer base from which to work
with your two C spanners which you must file smoother to also
combat, the quite unnacceptable issue, of marring our darlings

This pissy little stick you screw into a port gives no purchase at
all and if you must use one it must be steel to keep reg threads
from distorting when the skinny stick bends from undue forces

I sometimes tape some thin strip of rubber to these C spanners
but I do like the vice and a lever on the yoke or din for opening

Have you ever thought of using a tank valve, as a tool, thinking
thinking, yeah grab hold of a valve and tap tap yourselves away

With stubborn or ancient regs, my penetrating oil is Phosphoric
for obviously corroded, locked regulators, It just works and fast

and, with the rhwestfall beautiful, universal captive pin spanner
Once again, you must file sand and polish the ends of the pins


I have now soothed, so now it is time, to put down your books
and practice it all in the way you like and the way they like and
hopefully come closer towards enlightenment with many more tools in your head


Excuse me, Mr tinkerer in brass, you must remember the brass
skinny stick V the steel skinny stick discussions two soft metals
working against each other, make much reg heartbreak, for all

So if you could kindly do a class on not marring regs it would be mostest valuable

Thank you


Excuse me, there is more, but I am here, so it is here I shall be

12 apostles australia - Google Suche

www.google.com

Anything else is BS