hid woes: 10w /18w / 21w

[Mark Vlahos]

thanks for that awesome explanation mark! hit the spot. i was originally going to settle for ten but i am getting into wreck and cave and will defintely upgrade to a bigger one in the future so i wanted an all around light that is not too much yet practical for me. also i wouldnt have to worry about upgrading in the future.

also no one hardly dives hids here becasue of the prices. most of my buddies just have regular dive lights and i will most likely be the light source in most of our dives. as for the tech dives i wouldnt know bec i dont have any tech/wreck buddies as of the moment. what would you choose? 18/21 in terms of balance, color rendition and intensity? if only the prices were different id get the cheaper one. barry had to make my decision making worse by pricing the 18/21/24 all the same

My choice is a personal one based on my own reasons. These reasons may or may not apply to you. I compared the Halcyon, DiveRite, and Sartek 10 watt HID's. The Halcyon and Sartek had adjustable but contained optics while the DiveRite had an open reflector with the test tube over the lamp. Since I travel with my dive gear the DiveRite seemed just too fragile to endure the rigors of luggage on a daily basis. The Sartek had better strain reliefs on the cord where it came out of the battery canister, this appeared to be far more rugged again because of the constant abuse of packing in my luggage. The light output of the three lights was actually the last thing I considered. The DiveRite had by far the best light output and quality of beam, the Halcyon was a little better than the Sartek. I considered that the light actually working with an unbroken reflector, and unbroken cord seals was the best choice for me. For me 10 watts was as bright as I needed so I did not look at the brighter lights that were available at the time.

For you, the choice will be personal. Consider that the reflector type will play a role in the light quality as well as durability. An open reflector with a test tube style lamp will gather the light more efficiently, but the trade off is that it is more fragile. Higher color temperature will give you the illusion of greater light output when lumens are otherwise the same. Color rendition is only an issue if you are looking at LED's, and frankly the LED manufacturers are working hard on this issue and making considerable advances. Think about battery size and run time. 3 hours of run time would ba about the minimum I would like, 4 hours or more would be better. Strain reliefs, switches, bulk of the light head, these are the things you should be thinking of as well as light output.

Mark Vlahos

 

[OE2X]

FWIW - I went from a 10W Terkel to an 18W Salvo. The terkel was a great light for a 10W. The beam was focused and very narrow thus cutting through murky water. I have to say though that I prefer my 18W Salvo. The Brightstar bulb is white to blue on the spectrum. If you are in low vis it seems to cut through it better than the Welch Allen bulb that Halcyon uses. Last week I went diving with a three man team all week long in Port Hardy BC. Two of us had Salvo 18W and one had a Halcyon 18W. In the other team was a Salvo and a 21W Sandroff with a Welch Allen. The Brightstars looked much better underwater in all conditions in the side by side comparisons.

Mind you this is subjective, but I felt this way before spending the $$$ on the Salvo.

 

[Spoon]

FWIW - I went from a 10W Terkel to an 18W Salvo. The terkel was a great light for a 10W. The beam was focused and very narrow thus cutting through murky water. I have to say though that I prefer my 18W Salvo. The Brightstar bulb is white to blue on the spectrum. If you are in low vis it seems to cut through it better than the Welch Allen bulb that Halcyon uses. Last week I went diving with a three man team all week long in Port Hardy BC. Two of us had Salvo 18W and one had a Halcyon 18W. In the other team was a Salvo and a 21W Sandroff with a Welch Allen. The Brightstars looked much better underwater in all conditions in the side by side comparisons.

Mind you this is subjective, but I felt this way before spending the $$$ on the Salvo.

would you know how a salvo 18w would compare to a 21w salvo side by side under water? this is my major dilemma. at least i narrowed my choices to two

 

[OE2X]

No I wouldn't. Maybe if Barry wanted to send out a 21W for me to use for a while then I could do a comparison. Best thing to do is to email Barry. He will explain it in a way that is very easy to understand and you won't feel like you are being talked down to. My friend who bought an 18W from him spent about an hour on the phone one day. My friend is a new diver and had less than 20 dives when he talked to Barry. He was very impressed with how he (Barry) made him feel. So email your questions to him. He is a straight shooter despite what the folks that are Halcyon advocates may feel...

 

[Spoon]

He is a straight shooter despite what the folks that are Halcyon advocates may feel...

i totally agree! email sent

 

[Metalsub USA]

so your saying the 21w is different from the 18/24w but only difference is the test tube? i would think and assume the test tube would give added protection to the bulb but what do i know? also im used to overkill kinda like it

Overkill, what’s that??????????? I’ve never used that word in a dive light conversation, the only words I use when talking about my dive lights are, “the best, the brightest,” and surprising to many, “cheaper to buy than the competition.”

The same words keep popping up in discussions about “can lights” like Salvo and Halcyon, and they are “leaking” and ‘flooding.” Every time you open and close one of these can lights you increase your chance of leaking and flooding and high priced repair.

The on/off switch on the lid is another failure point and forces the diver to carry the large and cumbersome “can” on their hip where it gets in the way. Tank mounting your battery is the best place to put it, but you can’t do that if your on/off switch is on the battery can.

Take a look at Metasub’s HID lights, we make 24 watt and 50 watt HID dive lights. We know are products are so good that we guarantee no leaks for two years and we guarantee the HID bulbs won’t break or burnout for a year. Does any other dive light maker offer that good of a guarantee?

Please add Metalsub to your thoughts and review some information about them.

Just for you info, the Metalsub HID125 (24 watt), 9 Ah Battery Pack with 4.5 hour quickcharger, and a Goodman handle has a “Suggested Retail Price” of $1199.95. “Suggested Retail Price” of course means we have room to deal.

Chech out this review by the UK's number one dive mag "Diver"

 

[Spoon]

Overkill, what’s that??????????? I’ve never used that word in a dive light conversation, the only words I use when talking about my dive lights are, “the best, the brightest,” and surprising to many, “cheaper to buy than the competition.”

The same words keep popping up in discussions about “can lights” like Salvo and Halcyon, and they are “leaking” and ‘flooding.” Every time you open and close one of these can lights you increase your chance of leaking and flooding and high priced repair.

The on/off switch on the lid is another failure point and forces the diver to carry the large and cumbersome “can” on their hip where it gets in the way. Tank mounting your battery is the best place to put it, but you can’t do that if your on/off switch is on the battery can.


Please add Metalsub to your thoughts and review some information about them.

J
Chech out this review by the UK's number one dive mag "Diver"

your product is certainly the prettiest. thats one awesome light! im a fan of the aluminum and anodized thing. unfortunately i dont know anything about your product nor no anyone that actually owns one. il keep it in mind though. what about servicing to asia? anyway your product is veryt promising.

 

[Dive-aholic]

My choice is a personal one based on my own reasons. These reasons may or may not apply to you. I compared the Halcyon, DiveRite, and Sartek 10 watt HID's. The Halcyon and Sartek had adjustable but contained optics while the DiveRite had an open reflector with the test tube over the lamp. Since I travel with my dive gear the DiveRite seemed just too fragile to endure the rigors of luggage on a daily basis. The Sartek had better strain reliefs on the cord where it came out of the battery canister, this appeared to be far more rugged again because of the constant abuse of packing in my luggage. The light output of the three lights was actually the last thing I considered. The DiveRite had by far the best light output and quality of beam, the Halcyon was a little better than the Sartek. I considered that the light actually working with an unbroken reflector, and unbroken cord seals was the best choice for me. For me 10 watts was as bright as I needed so I did not look at the brighter lights that were available at the time....Mark Vlahos

I had some reservations about DiveRite's test tube design, but it seems to hold up fairly well. I keep mine protected in koozies when not in use. As far as the cord, DiveRite has changed the cord design. The old orange cords didn't have strain reliefs and were a failure point (I had one go out in a cave). I called DiveRite, explained I had bought the lights less than a year earlier, and they gave me a service number. I shipped the light heads and cords to them. Now I have the nice, improved black cords with strain reliefs on them. All of DiveRite's lights have those now. Mine was covered under warranty (all I paid for was shipping to them). I've heard that even the older ones can be replaced for about $100. I am glad to hear that DiveRite has the best light output and quality!

 

[Metalsub USA]

your product is certainly the prettiest. thats one awesome light! im a fan of the aluminum and anodized thing. unfortunately i dont know anything about your product nor no anyone that actually owns one. il keep it in mind though. what about servicing to asia? anyway your product is veryt promising.

Hello Carlo,

Metalsub is a very well known company in Europe but not in the USA. We have just started to distribute there in November of 2005 so it will be hard to find many people in North America who know the brand or specific products.

To answer you question, “why don’t you have em in 18 or 21 w?” Its Metalsub’s goal to make the best, brightest, and most robust lights they can and after researching mid wattage HID bulbs they decided the Brightstar 24 Watt HID was the best. There was no significant gain in burn time with the 18 or 21 watt bulbs. The HID125 has a 4.5 hour burn time with a 9 Ah battery. Same thing with the HID200, why didn’t we use a 35 Watt HID? Well with the 50 Watt D2S HID bulb we could make the first variable power HID dive light and maintain the same color temperature though 28-35-50 watt outputs which is a clear advantage over a fixed 35 watt HID.

As for a focusable head, that adds one more failure point and we need our products to be the most robust on the market. We do offer a 40° flood reflector that you can change above water, most divers should know what focus they need before they start the dive.

Servicing from Asia is no problem, all service is done at the Metalsub factory in Holland. This is better for you the customer because if you send us a damaged unit under warrantee, we just send you a NEW unit. Our turn around on repairs out of warrantee is about two days, then its UPSed back to you.

 

[Manta]

guys after doing some wreck diving over the weekend i am set on getting and investing on a hid can light. was originally set on a 10w but aftr seeing 2 of my buds with 10w hids i was dissapointed. the intensity was just as bright as my handheld led but was just wider. i wasnt impressed at all. when we dove the reef it looked pitiful during the day.

i am still 50/50 on what manufacturer to go with. i want the salvo bad eveything in my body is telling me to get the salvo but my gut tells me to get the halcyon. im well versed on the miller/halcyon drama and honestly i dont quite care. im just faced with the dilemma of servicing should the court case and warranty turn against me in the future. for short if the case was resolved and i could get my lights serviced id get the salvo if not then its halcyon

Anyway that aside why are the salvo 18w and 21w, 24w all the same prices? im thinking 18w is good enough for wreck and night diving but if the 21w and 24w are the same should i just get the 21 w or 24w? pros and cons? 4.5amp batt is to short a burntime im thinking of the 9amp. best value for money. also is focusable much better than fixed? whcih gives a better quality light 18w or 21w. i wanna be the brightest son of a gun in the water but dont wanna be overkill.

also why is it that the kelvin number decreases as the lumens (intensity) increases? can we have a lay mans explanation? always been puzzled by this. if im not mistaken the kelvin intensity determines the color of the light???

18w 1300lumens.....7000k
21w 1500lumens.....6500k
24w 1800lumens.....6000k

BTW pakman im looking forward to diving with your 21w salvo youve confused me some more

I encourage you to look at Green Force. We offer both 10 and 21 watt HID systems. Our 21 watt is IMPACT resistant. You can literally beat it on a table.

Green Force is a system that NEVER becomes obsolete. You can interchange all components; batteries, light heads and umbilical. Green Force is the only light made in the dive industry that is ISO 9001 certified. Our batteries are sealed....they can't flood; there are no external case clips. They are rated to 900 feet and triple O-ring sealed. We have all tech spec listed on our website, www.mantaindustries.com. You will never have to worry about warranty, Manta is the US distributor in the US, we have all components. I encourage you to put a post on the board asking about Green Force. If you have any questions, you can contact me directly; our 800 # is on our website.

Thanks - Greg