Helping A Friend, A Ccr Diver, Do's And Dont's

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Unfortunately not much usable info yet on the Key Largo accident.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=114676
Two CCR divers, one had problems and what looked like an O2 hit.
180 fsw dive on the Northern Light off Key Largo.
(Not even sure if that happened on the unit or if he bailed out to OC)

The buddy blew his deco to get the troubled diver to the surface, only to get bent so badly he lost him once there. Last I heard he was paralyzed underging treatments. Setting aside the cause for the initial problems (which we simply don't know), that's a very high price to pay for trying to safe a buddy.

On the opposite end is a CCR fatality a few years ago. Drysuit problems, shot to the surface, delayed chamber treatment, died in chamber. The dive buddy stayed behind, finished her deco. Having exchanged e-mails with her I can tell you she had a bad time hanging on the line as well as coming to terms with the loss afterwards. But she lived and dived another day ... .
 
caveseeker7:
Unfortunately not much usable info yet on the Key Largo accident.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=114676
Two CCR divers, one had problems and what looked like an O2 hit.
180 fsw dive on the Northern Light off Key Largo.
(Not even sure if that happened on the unit or if he bailed out to OC)

The buddy blew his deco to get the troubled diver to the surface, only to get bent so badly he lost him once there. Last I heard he was paralyzed underging treatments. Setting aside the cause for the initial problems (which we simply don't know), that's a very high price to pay for trying to safe a buddy.

On the opposite end is a CCR fatality a few years ago. Drysuit problems, shot to the surface, delayed chamber treatment, died in chamber. The dive buddy stayed behind, finished her deco. Having exchanged e-mails with her I can tell you she had a bad time hanging on the line as well as coming to terms with the loss afterwards. But she lived and dived another day ... .


I have read that artical about a month ago, or 2 week's ago, I was waiting to see what happend,, that is a sad story. Hopfully a leason is to be learned here, and he take's this serious. Im expecting to hear from him tonight, as i wrote this late last night, i had wrote him and my other buddy that dive's with us also, a email telling them the truth about how i feel, and what action;s we should take from here on out.
I was thinking of posting that email here, but wasn't sure, it will kinda give some more information, and see where i was going. I may copy and paste it, and put it on here.
 
Look I am not being judgmental - but didn't you pull something like this on TDS with regards to some sort of story about an instructor and how bad they were and how many mistakes they made and then you ended up getting banned as it turrned out you were tlaking complete horse excrement....

This time the story seems to be about one of your friends. Hey you might be right but then again if he is your mate why are you runnig him down like you did to that instructor on TDS.

Look even if you just don;t want to be the centre of attention and blame other people for various things - I am pretty skeptical after what happened on TDS

If any one is interested see similiar thing on TDS

http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5702

FLTEKDIVER:
After diving with a good friend, for the past year, both getting certified on SCR re-breather's in the past 6 month's, I found myself caught in a web, of bad decision making i think, and a accident waiting to happen. It is hard to go over ALL of the experience's, but i will list a few, to help me understand if it's just me being over cautious, or making the right decision to continue diving in a safe way.

Without going much into my dive buddies history , he has about 50 dives, been to
100' a hand full of time's., and is comfortable underwater, and has the CCR theory down. But I think is " Rolling the Dice " at this point.

For myself, everyone know's here ,, I sold my re-breather to another good friend, and went back to what i feel comfortable with, diving double's for now.

It started 6 month's ago, taking a SCR course only to learn little about re-breather's, dove the Dolphin, got certified, and converted it right over to CCR. He's been diving it now for about 4 month's and has probably 20-25 dives on it converted.

It is a Dolphin, converted to CCR. He is using one sensor, a oxy gage, which had a 2-3 year old sensor in it, but well wait later for that one. It has the Kiss Style manual valve on it, and your other basic mods to converting it over to CCR.

1. : As of today, 6 month's after the Conversion to CCR, just last month the one sensor he was using, went bad, only to find out, he bought the Oxy-gage off Ebay, and knew the sensor was a few year's old, but continued to use it , until it went bad, then he used a back up sensor. It is in a P connector , in the In-hale bag,that is the only form of monitoring his PPo2. As of today, i requested a min of two, to continue diving with me, also one that can monitor his loop gas as it change's with his profile.

2. : Using a Nitrox computer with no monitoring of the loop mix. He set's his Nitrox computer for the gas closest to the MOD for the dive. So say a 90' dive with a mix of 32% Nitrox , would be used in OC, he set's his computer for that, then follows it diving CCR. As of today, I requested a VR3 with a P connector that can monitor the loop mix, reason why, last week he did a dive for 52 min total dive time, to 90' , not sure if he bent his computer, not following any pre-dive plan, and got onto his Jet-Ski feeling really tired. I also suggested a set of $12 CCR table's, I even sent him the link.

3. : He bought a Jet-Ski, to dive off by him self, and is diving off the coast of FL, 5 mile's out + , off a Jet-ski, with no dive buddy, on a CCR unit, that he doesn't even have 25 dives on. Most charter boat's down here will not let a CCR dolphin on their boat, cause of insurance reason's we found out. You have to be certified for that application only, to which one you are diving. So to get around that, he dives off the Jet-Ski now. He has offered for me to join, I have a 25' cabin cruiser, and will not dive alone, or leave the boat in anything over 30' of water, with-out leaving diver's on the boat. I have done it once or twice, but i don't plan to dive that way ALL the time.

4.: He wants to take the converted Dolphin past rec limit's , say 200' + , I know some people do this , with this unit, but as of today, I told him I will not be doing that dive plan with him. He feels that he dove the unit to 130' , what's the difference of a extra 70' ? I feel he should first get much more experienced, then buy a unit that is designed for that application. I said tonight to him, I don't want to be a Guinea pig wondering if the unit will work at 200'+ , or will he !!

5. : He is a "self study" . He now wants to add Heliox into his re-breather, so his Nitrogen build-up is none, or little , for more "Safety" How would he monitor his loop mix then ? VR3 ? He doesn't want to get training for that gas, so to not mess with the hassle of the LDS, he mixes his own right now, and would be mixing his own Heliox, which really scares me.

6. : He also fills a PST steel 100 CF tank to 4500 PSI of Pure O2, then brings it on my boat, and as he dives his 13 CF , he then top's off using the Steel tank with whip. I was told pure 02 is very dangerous at that pressure, is that true?
I seen picture's of boat's having a O2 explosion, and I don't want it to be me!


7. : If planning to go past rec limit's, I plan on taking advanced Nitrox-Extended range, but no agency will let him take the class on a CCR Dolphin. So he want's to skip all that training. What do you recommend for diving past rec limit's both OC and CCR ?


There are many more detail's I could go into, and many more question's I have. After diving with my friend for the past year. I don't want to end our friendship over this, as I enjoy his company, he is a friend, we also play paint ball with the families, goto Bbq's , and so on. But I am concerned for his safety. For now I think the line has crossed for myself, and at this point I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette, is the way another friend had put it.

I don't want to continue diving, stressing out, wondering every time I turn around, is he OK, did he pass out, is the 1 sensor working, etc, etc, etc

It's 4 am, after loosing sleep all night over this, I hopefully can save my friend, before he either gets himself killed, or the both of us .

Ps, Thank god for spell check !
 
That was over 2 year's ago, on TDS, and this has nothing to do with running down or
bashing anyone here. It is about somone coming to truth with his dive buddie's, and i do know there are certian CCR basic's that do apply when diving CCR.
Everyone here know me, as i been in this form for over 3 year's, and have over 400 post. Just 6 month's ago, i posted form's about getting certifed on both the Azimuth and the Dolphin. I have over 500 logged dive's, and know my limit's . Problem here is were talking about somone with less then 50 dive's, who in my book is breaking alot of the " Basic " rule's when diving CCR . this subject and the one posted two year's ago has nothing to do with each other. Since that post on TDS, i stayed withen my Intro Cave, and now know 2 year's later what my limit's are, and take full responsible action's for myself. The other buddy in the team feel's the same way, and this is only to simply answere the question's , that i all ready knew what were going to be the answere's. Problem is, now it's coming from much more experianced people on here, like caveseeker7, and all the other's, who have much more pratical and experiance then myself and my buddy on rebreather's. So They have answered the question's for me. Now i can goto this person, and say here it is, print it out, not from a person like myself with little experiance on rebreather's, but here the most respected diver's on the form's advice, he can simply take it from there. What he choses from here is his descion. One thing i can say, over the 5 year's of diving, i have made a ton of friend's, have a bunch of dive buddie's, and everyone has their fault's, including myself.

This is not to bash him in anyway , and everyone here that know's me, know's im not that type of person.

I also appreciate everyone relizing he is a good friend, and respecting that, they have but straight to the point. I could go into both our profile's, and im sure we could find flaw's in both, but im not a gambler, and everyone here know's that. I dive with alot of people on this form in Florida, and most know im a safe diver , that know's his limit's.
 
I went back onto the form's, and read page for page, I been on the deco stop under a different name for over a year. They banned me for no reason, when in fact I got a message because I found out the topic was going into to much detail.
The friend's I dove with then, and I still dive with one from that group, supported myself, and my decision. they were true friend's.
Since then I took the responsibility and blamed myself , for being an over confinement diver at the time, and for other reason's I did not call the dive. Nobody's fault but my own. But I can say 2 year's later, and 100's of more dive's later, that I know my limit's now. When I get that feeling that I had that day , I don;t push the envelope anymore.
Is till currently dive with a bunch of people here on the board, over 30 people probley, and cave dive with them upto my limit's, which is Intro. After two year's since that incident, I have taken my time, and when Im ready to go further, if I am, I will do so. But since then ., I've learned to respect the sport, and the people like Tom Mount, when back then I didn't even know who he was, and many of the other people from around the world that share their expertise on the board. funny how something from that long ago, can be brought up. Im up at Ginnie spring's allot, and do allot of diving there, and all over the spring's, and know many people up there, and have allot of respect now, which I didn't back then.
By the way, I dropped the charges on that instructor , and he would have continued me in the class. After he even read the form's he felt it was a one time deal, and my diving ability's to continue to dive with the group were fine. Taking responsibility on myself, I gave myself more time, the past 2 year's, and am happy with where Im at.

But I can say, I follow the rule's, and know the basic's of CCR diving, and diving in general, and my friend surely isn't. Hopefully he realizes this is to more help him, rather then bash him. It was and still is never meant to be that way, and thank you for respecting that.
 
Henryville:
Step one is recognition - print your original post (okay, edit in a few places) and give it to your friend to read. Then ask him to let his wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, mother, or child read it. QUOTE]

Your friend is taking chances with not only his life but the lives and future of his family, and yours when you dive with him. Obviously you know this, I doubt his wife does. There isn't much that hasn't been said already. Although it seems a shame for a man to risk his life over a few thousand dollars in equipment and training. I mean this isn't a case of if he will die, at this rate it is about how soon, and is he going to take you with him? good luck
 
Robert Thompson:
Henryville:
Step one is recognition - print your original post (okay, edit in a few places) and give it to your friend to read. Then ask him to let his wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, mother, or child read it. QUOTE]

Your friend is taking chances with not only his life but the lives and future of his family, and yours when you dive with him. Obviously you know this, I doubt his wife does. There isn't much that hasn't been said already. Although it seems a shame for a man to risk his life over a few thousand dollars in equipment and training. I mean this isn't a case of if he will die, at this rate it is about how soon, and is he going to take you with him? good luck


Yes, thank you for your support. I couldn't;t agree more. I just spoke with the other dive partner that we dive with, that bought my re-breather, and he also owns two
MK-15's re-breather's, and very experienced with them. He also agrees , and read this post, and will going on here tonight or tomorrow night to post his opinion also.
Thank you
 
Hello I am a friend of Fltek and bought the Dolphin rebreather he had. This is how I met him. First off this is my first post to this forum at the request of Fltek. Any way I have been diving for sometime and have been interested in rebreathers for most of that time. I have built home made units and have been self schooled in there use and function. I do not consider myself to be foolish but rather very Conservative and a safe diver. I currently dive the Dolphin for shallow dives in the SCR cycle and got it because I plan to do long duration shore dives artifact hunting. I also dive a MK-15 in the stock configuration. I also dive open circuit if the dive profile warrants it. As for the MK15 I am planning on upgrading the secondary display to digital unit and to incorporate a dive computer, both of which I will build. I like Fltek friend have dove alone but never because I felt it was the way to go, but rather because there was no one to do it with. That was a along time ago and now will not do it. I also have found it difficult to find those that have the same interests that I have. I will admit that I am responsible for having Fltek question his friend, I being new to the local area, and learned of the issues. I did it because I wanted to help make things safer for them both. I hope that it does not cost them their friend ship. But I know I would have been wrong not to express my concerns. I feel that if things do not change we will not have a friend. I am glad to have all your support in this matter and I know Fltek has needed it, it is very appreciated. I am now expert( well maybe when it comes to rebreathers) and want to make diving with my new friends safe and enjoyable, not stressed out like Fltek has been, not what I call a good time. Well good to post and as time warrants and I have something I can add that will help I will. :D
 
deepccr:
Hello I am a friend of Fltek and bought the Dolphin rebreather he had. This is how I met him. First off this is my first post to this forum at the request of Fltek. Any way I have been diving for sometime and have been interested in rebreathers for most of that time. I have built home made units and have been self schooled in there use and function. I do not consider myself to be foolish but rather very Conservative and a safe diver. I currently dive the Dolphin for shallow dives in the SCR cycle and got it because I plan to do long duration shore dives artifact hunting. I also dive a MK-15 in the stock configuration. I also dive open circuit if the dive profile warrants it. As for the MK15 I am planning on upgrading the secondary display to digital unit and to incorporate a dive computer, both of which I will build. I like Fltek friend have dove alone but never because I felt it was the way to go, but rather because there was no one to do it with. That was a along time ago and now will not do it. I also have found it difficult to find those that have the same interests that I have. I will admit that I am responsible for having Fltek question his friend, I being new to the local area, and learned of the issues. I did it because I wanted to help make things safer for them both. I hope that it does not cost them their friend ship. But I know I would have been wrong not to express my concerns. I feel that if things do not change we will not have a friend. I am glad to have all your support in this matter and I know Fltek has needed it, it is very appreciated. I am now expert( well maybe when it comes to rebreathers) and want to make diving with my new friends safe and enjoyable, not stressed out like Fltek has been, not what I call a good time. Well good to post and as time warrants and I have something I can add that will help I will. :D

Thank's for your post deepccr, and i appreciate your support in this, and vaule our friendship as well, and want to keep us ALL diving together, just safer. Welcome to Scuba Board, you posted your first post !!! You should go into the form's and introduce yourslef to the board, there are many great people here, you will get me some here in FL to. David and myself were on a charter boat 2 month's ago, and i knew the whole boat, but we didn;t know they were planning a dive that weekend. It was funny, we all met for the first time, and introduced ourselve's by our user names on the board!!

Thank's again , i'll call you in alittle bit.
 
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