Helper in trouble-involuntary manslaughter

[GrandpaScuba]

If I understand the OP, this was in Germany. Here in the USA, most states (maybe all states?) have what is called "the Good Sameritan Law". The Good Sameritan Law says that if you come to someones aid in good faith and according to your ability, you cannot be sued.

 

[ktomlinson]

I am currently a DM candidate...I have talked with my instructor about a student rapidly ascending and he said to let them go as long as they are exhaling...if they aren't exhaling he said that a quick strike to the gut usually makes them start. I'm not advocating this approach, just stating what I've been taught so that folks can comment on it.

 

[VanHalen5150]

If I understand the OP, this was in Germany. Here in the USA, most states (maybe all states?) have what is called "the Good Sameritan Law". The Good Sameritan Law says that if you come to someones aid in good faith and according to your ability, you cannot be sued.

One observation here. Keying in on the "according to your ability" part of that law. I totally agree with the good samaritan law, For instance if you are trapped in a burning car, no reasonable expectation of help before you burn to death and I pull you out of the car to save your life you cannot sue me for being paralysed because as a lay person I only intended to save your life, Not offer you a full medical evaluation.

On the other hand if an EMT came along and the car wasn't at risk of burning and he jerked you out of the car without placing you in a c-spine collar guess what? Yeah, Hes in an ass load of trouble, and should be. Where the water gets muddy is this... What if the car is burning, and the EMT is afraid it will explode killing both you and him? Can he make the judgement call? I don't know.

What I do know is this will be the arguement, The instructor is not an ordinary diver, He is held to a higher standard, " according to HIS ability "

My feeling though from my heart is this, He (the instructor) is still a human, and we as humans make mistakes, He did intend to help the man, and the diver knew (or at least should have) the risks before he got in the water, he went of his own free will. All that said I believe the instructor made at the time his best effort, right or wrong to aid the diver in trouble.

I can only hope his lawyer demands and gets a true jury of his peers (Divers) to judge him. This is a very complicated situation. Imagine trying to explain all the ins and outs of scuba to 12 random people off the street? What a nightmare.

My thought and prayers are with both the diver who passed away, the instructor, and both their families who will be forever touched by this tragic event.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am a relatively fresh instructor, one thing I remember from my IDC most vividly is to never push purge button on the regulator in somebody else's mouth. I did this during the pool training on my student fellow (simulated exercise) and the course director evaluated the situation with words "you just killed your student".

I agree that one should not push the purge button when donating a regulator, but, ironically enough, some recent threads have indicated that some instructors are actually teaching their students to push the purge button on donation as a part of standard practice, which I find astounding.

 

[ktomlinson]

I agree that one should not push the purge button when donating a regulator, but, ironically enough, some recent threads have indicated that some instructors are actually teaching their students to push the purge button on donation as a part of standard practice, which I find astounding.

Are these instructors teaching to purge in someone else's mouth or teaching to purge while donating to show that the reg is functioning? Is it clear from the threads you've read?

 

[boulderjohn]

Are these instructors teaching to purge in someone else's mouth or teaching to purge while donating to show that the reg is functioning? Is it clear from the threads you've read?

It's not always clear, but it is wrong in either case. When you purge to show that it is functioning, you are first of all making it hard for the diver to see the regulator to secure it. You are secondly puting your finger over the purge button and thus hindering the OOA diver's ability to get control of it. Finally, you are accomplishing nothing positive. What do you think the OOA diver is gong to think if you hand out a regulator without purging? "I wonder if that regulator that is being to offered to me in response to my OOA signal is actually a working regulator or a non-functioning one that he carries around just to fool people in a situation like this?"

 

[ktomlinson]

Well I don't advocate for anyone to purge while donating, I've never been taught to do that. I was just curious as to what the people that learned to purge were taught as the reason. I don't think bubbles obscuring the view is a reason not to purge, but I certainly think it will complicate and delay an otherwise simple procedure.

 

[boulderjohn]

Well I don't advocate for anyone to purge while donating, I've never been taught to do that. I was just curious as to what the people that learned to purge were taught as the reason. I don't think bubbles obscuring the view is a reason not to purge, but I certainly think it will complicate and delay an otherwise simple procedure.

In technical dive training, instructors can do a lot of things that are not allowed in regular training, and I had an experience that speaks to this. My buddy and I were swimming along together, when for some reason he dropped down 4-5 feet lower than me. Our instructor saw this and immediately shut off my air. I signaled, and he reached up toward me to donate, just as he exhaled. The result was that the regulator he was donating was in the middle of his bubbles, similar to a purging. I couldn't see it. I want to see that mouthpiece, not a flood of white bubbles.

 

[JohnN]

If I understand the OP, this was in Germany. Here in the USA, most states (maybe all states?) have what is called "the Good Sameritan Law". The Good Sameritan Law says that if you come to someones aid in good faith and according to your ability, you cannot be sued.

Oh no. . . not nearly that simple or straight-forward. "Good Samaritan" laws vary widely between jurisdiction and generally only apply to persons providing assistance without expectation of financial reward. That clearly wasn't the case here.

There are also restrictions in most areas, you still are not exempt from liability if you provide care outside your level of training or provide care not consistent with your training. In Oregon the clause is:

unless it is alleged and proved by the complaining party that the acts or omissions violate the standards of reasonable care under the circumstances in which the emergency medical assistance was rendered

So for your case, if you are a Scuba Instructor and this happened, your ass would most likely be on the line. Unfortunately the damages would likely be more than 1 month's pay.

John N

 

[ktomlinson]

In technical dive training, instructors can do a lot of things that are not allowed in regular training, and I had an experience that speaks to this. My buddy and I were swimming along together, when for some reason he dropped down 4-5 feet lower than me. Our instructor saw this and immediately shut off my air. I signaled, and he reached up toward me to donate, just as he exhaled. The result was that the regulator he was donating was in the middle of his bubbles, similar to a purging. I couldn't see it. I want to see that mouthpiece, not a flood of white bubbles.

Ok, I understand why you have the aversion to bubbles then, point taken on not obscuring the mouthpiece with bubbles. Did he shut off your primary and secondary regulators at the same time?