HELP!! Need Advice!!!

[BarryNL]

I cannot agree with what the "instr" did but....
Do not go on an island vacation to dive untill you have mastered the required skills in the pool first..If you have to have any qualms about clearing a completely flooded mask/or no mask then you are not ready for the dives..It should be "no big deal" in your head to do any required skill before you go,should be able to accomplish skill easily with no discomfort...I have seen too many people who can barely clear a mask and get certified and still be afraid of having water on their face..These people are an accident waiting to happen.

I have to say, reading between the lines a bit, that the instructor doesn't seem to have made any big mistakes.

Initially, if you've completed the pool sessions then you should be comfortable with flooding and clearing your mask - this may not be the case but I can understand why an instructor would expect it. It sounds like the instructor's main fault is lacking the "people skills" to pick up on your difficulty with this exercise.

As regards preventing your ascent, the instructor was spot on - he had no way of knowing whether you were breathing or holding your breath. Sorry, but when working with students we have to keep you safe whether you like it or not

At the surface, it's difficult to judge without knowing exactly what happened but in that situation I would certainly make sure I had got the students BCD inflated before breaking contact with them - could this be what the instructor was doing?

As I say, I think the only thing this instructor needs to learn is some people skills but overall I can't see any major problems with what they did.

 

[Doc Harry]

Sassalin,

Clearly, there are a lot of "Do-Gooders" here who feel that it is okay to hold a choking, panicking person underwater in a pool in order to "save" your life. I am not going to argue with them. They can come over to my pool and let me hold them underwater and then we can talk about it.

In my experience, well-intentioned "Do-Gooders" do more harm than good and should be kept at arm's length.

Remember: It's your life. It's your dive. Out there in the real world NOBODY has a right to grab you underwater. I recommend that you view getting grabbed underwater as a very real and serious threat to your life.

The ONLY scenarios in which someone should grab you underwater are when:

(1) you are unconscious
(2) you have briefed your dive buddy on procedures and it is YOUR BUDDY who grabs you

 

[BarryNL]

Sassalin,

Clearly, there are a lot of "Do-Gooders" here who feel that it is okay to hold a choking, panicking person underwater in a pool in order to "save" your life. I am not going to argue with them. They can come over to my pool and let me hold them underwater and then we can talk about it.

In my experience, well-intentioned "Do-Gooders" do more harm than good and should be kept at arm's length.

Remember: It's your life. It's your dive. Out there in the real world NOBODY has a right to grab you underwater. I recommend that you view getting grabbed underwater as a very real and serious threat to your life.

The ONLY scenarios in which someone should grab you underwater are when:

(1) you are unconscious
(2) you have briefed your dive buddy on procedures and it is YOUR BUDDY who grabs you

Heh, hope you remember this post if you ever decide to go pro.

 

[Chocoholic]

Go to the shop and try on every mask you can find and get yourself a mask that fits, then try it in the bathtub or sink.
Silver lining: you now know what it feels like to panic underwater.... that means you can remember it and know when you are about to panic, knowing exactly what it feels like and knowing it is coming and then STOPPING the panic could save your life sometime. thats a huge lesson.

 

[wreckchick]

Not for nothing, but you would kill someone. Let's say you're at depth with a paniced diver. Paniced because they're choking on water from breathing through nose in a flooded mask or broken mouthpiece or whatever. They start bolting to surface already in a panic choking on water. 5 feet or 50 feet, whatever. You're going to hold them down and expect them to stop panicing? You will increase their panic until they drown. But atleast they didn't get an embolism.

I don't know about that idea. If the person who bolts to the surface is choking on water, I say let them go. they've already dropped the ball and not much you can do for them. Meet them at the surface and help them there.

Sassalin,

Clearly, there are a lot of "Do-Gooders" here who feel that it is okay to hold a choking, panicking person underwater in a pool in order to "save" your life. I am not going to argue with them. They can come over to my pool and let me hold them underwater and then we can talk about it.

In my experience, well-intentioned "Do-Gooders" do more harm than good and should be kept at arm's length.

Remember: It's your life. It's your dive. Out there in the real world NOBODY has a right to grab you underwater. I recommend that you view getting grabbed underwater as a very real and serious threat to your life.

The ONLY scenarios in which someone should grab you underwater are when:

(1) you are unconscious
(2) you have briefed your dive buddy on procedures and it is YOUR BUDDY who grabs you

You are both so absolutely wrong that it's astonishing. We, as professionals, have a duty to keep people from killing themselves in a blind panic even if it means putting ourselves at risk. If I just watched someone go, shrugged, and did a nice slow ascent to scoop up the corpse, I would lose my job, my instructor status, any lawsuits the victims family decided to file, and potentially a great deal of my freedom since my inaction clearly led to the victim's demise. While I understand that as non-pros you might see it another way, I cannot, under any circumstances let an uncertified diver bolt from 5' or 50' and risk injury. Call it what you will, it was a rescue, not an assault.

Rachel

 

[sassalin]

Just an update...

I spoke with the owner and with the head instructor. Each agree this was improper. If I had been under 50ft of water I most likely would have drown because I had no idea what he was doing. If I had know things might have been different. With this experience fresh in my mind I now know how important it is to have buddy that understands you and that you trust. I also know that it's human nature to panic but you have to overcome it. Hopefully in the future it will make me a better diver when I do decide I am ready.

To all the Pro's/Instructors....If you think this is a proper way to teach so be it. Someone of my experience most likely will not change your mind but I do ask that you warn your students that you may slow their acent so in a time of panic they at least know your intent.

werckchick, the helper was not in danger. I had a mask full of water so I could not see and I feel hands on me stopping me from going to the surface not to mention the choking on additional water from my regulator not fitting as it should. From your profile you have logged over 1000+ dives...congrats, but I think you might have forgotten a time when you were new and everything you are doing can be scary yet exciting. It's sad but from your post it looks like you care more about a lawsuit and yourself than the diver. I hope I am wrong. I do appriciate you input to the conversation.

 

[DivingPrincessE]

werckchick, the helper was not in danger. I had a mask full of water so I could not see and I feel hands on me stopping me from going to the surface not to mention the choking on additional water from my regulator not fitting as it should. From your profile you have logged over 1000+ dives...congrats, but I think you might have forgotten a time when you were new and everything you are doing can be scary yet exciting. It's sad but from your post it looks like you care more about a lawsuit and yourself than the diver. I hope I am wrong. I do appriciate you input to the conversation.

I have 23 logged dives, and was just certified last year...so I do remember what it was like to be a student. I said basically the same thing as wreckchick, as did most of the experienced divers. Of course the shop owner/head instructor or whoever was on your side, haven't you ever heard the expression, "the customer is always right." They don't want to lose your business.

 

[oly5050user]

Sassalin; the instructor did the right thing.Could use some people skills though,. Anything else would be seen as negligent.A person can suffer a lung expansion injury in as little as 4' of water.You were not likely in danger of drowning,although it may have felt like it.The instructor/dm was just trying to slow up your ascent and hoping that you do not totally lock up and hold your breath and manage to exhale a bit.Even if you inhaled a bit of water it better than having a (AGE)embolism.

 

[wreckchick]

Just an update...

I spoke with the owner and with the head instructor. Each agree this was improper. If I had been under 50ft of water I most likely would have drown because I had no idea what he was doing. If I had know things might have been different. With this experience fresh in my mind I now know how important it is to have buddy that understands you and that you trust. I also know that it's human nature to panic but you have to overcome it. Hopefully in the future it will make me a better diver when I do decide I am ready.

To all the Pro's/Instructors....If you think this is a proper way to teach so be it. Someone of my experience most likely will not change your mind but I do ask that you warn your students that you may slow their acent so in a time of panic they at least know your intent.

werckchick, the helper was not in danger. I had a mask full of water so I could not see and I feel hands on me stopping me from going to the surface not to mention the choking on additional water from my regulator not fitting as it should. From your profile you have logged over 1000+ dives...congrats, but I think you might have forgotten a time when you were new and everything you are doing can be scary yet exciting. It's sad but from your post it looks like you care more about a lawsuit and yourself than the diver. I hope I am wrong. I do appriciate you input to the conversation.

I absolutely remember what it was like to be a new diver. I see new divers all the time to remind me what it was like.

I understand what you're saying about the assistant not being in danger. Most of the rescues I do, I'm not in danger either. I was responding the people who seem to think it's ok to let someone else harm themselves in lieu of putting themselves in danger which is not an option for a pro.

I think that with a more structured practice session, or sessions, you'll be fine but you need to make sure that the confined water work you do is goal-oriented to help you overcome the panicky feeling you get when you have a mask full of water or even to help you manage that sensation if you feel it.

I wish you all the best and hope that you continue to practice until you're comfortable enough to tackle your OW dives.

Rachel

 

[mow2000]

Seems like diving either attracts people who like to tell other people what to do or brings out this quality in them. That's always irritated me. There's nothing worse than paying good money to be ordered around by some little prick on a dive boat who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

If you feel his actions were improper then they probably were. Find a good instructor and good equipment and find some good people who enjoy diving more than they enjoy pushing people around. Diving is fun.

Years ago i had a buddy who panicked. We were at 60' in a dark quarry and she wanted to get immediately to the surface. I held her bc and dumped mine - enough to slow her ascent - and I looked at her to make sure she was breathing okay. When we got to shore I gave her a little time to relax then asked her how she enjoyed the dive. Eventually we spoke about her problems. No big drama.