St. George area is worth a look. Not the cheapest, but climate is nice except the hottest parts of the summer there's at least some diving: Scuba Diving in Southern Utah
Help me find a new place to live.
- Thread starter Eric Sedletzky
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Bubblesong
Contributor
Consider being a Snowbird? summer in New Hampshire, winter in Florida. You would have two Art studios full of summer tourists so it would greatly increase your renown as a fine arts painter.
There is good diving all along east coast.
There is good diving all along east coast.
OP
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Local diving would be nice, but there is way more to it than that.
Driving to Socal from where I live is 7 - 8 hrs.
The diving here in Norcal is cool but it’s really cold and it’s remote with virtually no diving infrastructure, and it just got worse. Access is difficult and the conditions are very unpredictable. I would miss the diving but it could be replaced easily with something else. The quality of the diving has also really declined lately with some big changes happening to the local ecosystem. There are vast expanses of urchin barrens now and no kelp forests. I haven’t been able to get out locally in quite a while now between the conditions sucking and being overly busy.
But even being overly busy, it might sound good, but the sheer cost of everything here just to survive is getting scary and pretty much eats up everything I make so traveling to dive becomes impossibly difficult. The recession hit us very hard and rates have still not caught up to the soaring cost of everything from gas to groceries to pretty much everything. I’m stuck at a market value ceiling with what I can charge for my services and as the years pass it’s getting harder and harder. I’m not the only one, many people I know (business owners) are in the same boat.
You guys who live in higher value areas seem to have it better and are able to fly somewhere to dive multiple times per year. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the average person in California spends an inordinate amount of money just to survive which leaves very little to play with, unless their making huge money in the tech industry or some other lucrative venture, but for the rest of us it’s not like that.
I’m self employed so I can establish myself anywhere. My wife is retired so her pension and s/s is fixed. A place with value is in our best interest.
The only experience I had in Texas was Austin but it’s turning into a place that’s similar to what I’m trying to get away from. I know that’s not fair for the rest of TX so that would need more research. I have a friend that moved to TX and relocated his hot rod shop. He’s doing very well and loves it.
NM is not high on the list. My sister lives in Santa Fe, which is cool, artsy and all but is a refuge for displaced and bitter Berkelyites from the Bay Area. It’s too pretentious for me and too high priced with not enough business potential. Albuquerque is a no. NM in general is a no.
Arizona holds promise but it does get damn hot.
I’ve heard good things about Tempe and Scottsdale.
My brother in law moved to Mesquite NV and seems to like it. I wasn’t thrilled with the place because it’s an upcoming Palm Desert with too many golf courses and retirees, again, not enough business potential for what I do. Las Vegas is an hour away but that place is a pit.
Part of the reason I don’t like it here anymore is the threat of PG&E caused wildfires. We are up against an embedded entity that has a complete monopoly on our power source and has neglected to put a dime into their infrastructure over many years. As time goes by and more people move into CA and more homes get built where they shouldn’t get built. The freakish weather we’ve been getting makes for a perfect storm when you combine high dry winds with high voltage and plenty of fuel.
So PG&E will spike the rates to make up for all the law suits and to try and update their infrastructure and we will get screwed once again.
This year alone they cut power several times to try and prevent fires but it still didn’t work. I lost several weeks worth of critical work because of all that. I can’t do it anymore.
Driving to Socal from where I live is 7 - 8 hrs.
The diving here in Norcal is cool but it’s really cold and it’s remote with virtually no diving infrastructure, and it just got worse. Access is difficult and the conditions are very unpredictable. I would miss the diving but it could be replaced easily with something else. The quality of the diving has also really declined lately with some big changes happening to the local ecosystem. There are vast expanses of urchin barrens now and no kelp forests. I haven’t been able to get out locally in quite a while now between the conditions sucking and being overly busy.
But even being overly busy, it might sound good, but the sheer cost of everything here just to survive is getting scary and pretty much eats up everything I make so traveling to dive becomes impossibly difficult. The recession hit us very hard and rates have still not caught up to the soaring cost of everything from gas to groceries to pretty much everything. I’m stuck at a market value ceiling with what I can charge for my services and as the years pass it’s getting harder and harder. I’m not the only one, many people I know (business owners) are in the same boat.
You guys who live in higher value areas seem to have it better and are able to fly somewhere to dive multiple times per year. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the average person in California spends an inordinate amount of money just to survive which leaves very little to play with, unless their making huge money in the tech industry or some other lucrative venture, but for the rest of us it’s not like that.
I’m self employed so I can establish myself anywhere. My wife is retired so her pension and s/s is fixed. A place with value is in our best interest.
The only experience I had in Texas was Austin but it’s turning into a place that’s similar to what I’m trying to get away from. I know that’s not fair for the rest of TX so that would need more research. I have a friend that moved to TX and relocated his hot rod shop. He’s doing very well and loves it.
NM is not high on the list. My sister lives in Santa Fe, which is cool, artsy and all but is a refuge for displaced and bitter Berkelyites from the Bay Area. It’s too pretentious for me and too high priced with not enough business potential. Albuquerque is a no. NM in general is a no.
Arizona holds promise but it does get damn hot.
I’ve heard good things about Tempe and Scottsdale.
My brother in law moved to Mesquite NV and seems to like it. I wasn’t thrilled with the place because it’s an upcoming Palm Desert with too many golf courses and retirees, again, not enough business potential for what I do. Las Vegas is an hour away but that place is a pit.
Part of the reason I don’t like it here anymore is the threat of PG&E caused wildfires. We are up against an embedded entity that has a complete monopoly on our power source and has neglected to put a dime into their infrastructure over many years. As time goes by and more people move into CA and more homes get built where they shouldn’t get built. The freakish weather we’ve been getting makes for a perfect storm when you combine high dry winds with high voltage and plenty of fuel.
So PG&E will spike the rates to make up for all the law suits and to try and update their infrastructure and we will get screwed once again.
This year alone they cut power several times to try and prevent fires but it still didn’t work. I lost several weeks worth of critical work because of all that. I can’t do it anymore.
Tempe is a party town to a 3rd rate university, I'd avoid it. Scottsdale is the upscale side of Phoenix. Homes in various price points with compared to Southern California great value to size. Tucson is a few hours south still a nice large city (but not huge like Phoenix) and while the highs are similar (but usually 5-15 degrees cooler than Phoenix) will usually cool off far more in the evening (think 15-30 degrees cooler than phoenix). I was born and raised in Phoenix, went to school Tucson, and live in San Diego now (lived all over with the military).
drrich2
Contributor
Texas varies in humidity. I have been told the Houston area is humid. So if that's an issue, be aware. And I was raised in south-central Arkansas, where summers can be a sweat-dripping steam bath (during droughts!), so I know it can be an issue. If I lived in Texas, I'd try the Fling live-aboard...but be warned whether they go out of not is hit or miss, from what I've read in the past.
This might help narrow it down; would you be content living inland if you could take 2 dive trips/year? I'll throw out some dive trip expense examples.
I tend to budget around $3,000 to $4,500 for a 'typical' week long solo dive vacation. My recent 8-day, 30-dive Bonaire trip ran around $3,500 with airfare and everything. Last year an 8-day, 26-dive trip to Cozumel staying at Casa Mexicana about $3,250. Those trip costs include round trip airfare starting at Nashville, TN. And I tend to include food (no alcohol), tips if relevant, airport parking, pretty much everything but souvenir expenses in my sums.
You could do Blackbeard's or the Juliet cheaper; for that matter, stay at a cheaper place and I hear good things about Dive With Martin for cost control in Cozumel. Turquoise Bay Resort in Roatan seems to be a good choice for quality budget dive trips (haven't been). I'm not the low cost leader, but am fairly cheap. If you take your wife, that's going to run up the bill.
This might help narrow it down; would you be content living inland if you could take 2 dive trips/year? I'll throw out some dive trip expense examples.
I tend to budget around $3,000 to $4,500 for a 'typical' week long solo dive vacation. My recent 8-day, 30-dive Bonaire trip ran around $3,500 with airfare and everything. Last year an 8-day, 26-dive trip to Cozumel staying at Casa Mexicana about $3,250. Those trip costs include round trip airfare starting at Nashville, TN. And I tend to include food (no alcohol), tips if relevant, airport parking, pretty much everything but souvenir expenses in my sums.
You could do Blackbeard's or the Juliet cheaper; for that matter, stay at a cheaper place and I hear good things about Dive With Martin for cost control in Cozumel. Turquoise Bay Resort in Roatan seems to be a good choice for quality budget dive trips (haven't been). I'm not the low cost leader, but am fairly cheap. If you take your wife, that's going to run up the bill.
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I live in Phoenix. My sister lives ib the Tucon Foothills. When my parents pass I'm probably moving to Tucson.
Pro's/cons of each.
Phoenix became ab attractive option for people fleeing SoCal about a decde ago. Prices are aLot cheaper and are finally starting to rebound. My friend just bought a really nice house, 5br, 2 car detatched garage, big rooms, all professionally landscaped with planters, big trees, on what must be 1/2 acre lot - others in his area have horses and there's enough land that you could put in a shop in tha backyard and hardly see it. He paid $330K. He and I live in NW Phoenix about 45 mins. from downtown. Buses here mostly run on the hour - every specific city also has Dial-a-Ride service which takes you anywhere in the city for $2.
Our freeways are horrible twice a day. I-17 runs N/S in the state and I-10 E/W. If it's not rush hour they're relatively ubcrowded but busier than they used to be. There are also loop roads (state freeways) in several concentric circles around town at various intervals. Downtown Phoenix has been trying to invent itself as a hub ever since I moved here in the 80s and recently some progress was made with both the AZ Diamondbacks baseball stadium and whatever they call the Phoenix Suns basketball stadium next door. Out in west Glendale just off I10 we have Cardinals football and Roadrunners hockey next door - both in an entertainment mall/complex.
You will drive a lot here, I used to work at ASU in Tempe and my commute was 30-45mins, Phoenix has sereal well regarded museums, the Phoenix Symphony and because several Indian reservations border the east side - full casino gambling.
Lots of parks, the North Mountains Preserve was set aside decades ago - no one can build on it but there's hiking trails that go for miles. Pretty good system of bike trails also - the CAP canal brings in water and much of it has hiking/biking and tunnels so you don't have to cross the street - there's even one under I17 in one area. I've ridden over an hour and not had to stop.
It's hot here but like I tell my friends back east - you don't have to shovel heat. I gp fom A/C to A/C - the only issue is the car gets hot in uncoverd parking.
Instead of Tempe which just about doubles in size when ASU is in session look a little farther SE. Mesa is nice, Chandler nice and upcoming Intel has a big Fab facility and Gibert is pretty nice also. NW of Phoenix Sun City is one of the largest active adukt communities (no kids) and beyond that Surprise is very well developed and newer.
There's talk that Bill Gates (Microsoft) and others are developing an entire master planned tech-focused community west of town around the 303 loop which means it's 300 blocks west of downtown. IDK what's out there now.
So now to diving - we have ome lake - Lake Pleasant about 30 mins. north of town. Typical lake, there's boat traffic but areas are set aside for divers. Most shops use it for training but rhere's no wrecks or anything. They did add a new dam some years ago and blew a big hole in the old one - since the lake filled in it's now a tech dive due to depth, murkiness amd exposed rebar, Someone recently died there.
There are 4 lakes east of Phoenix but they're all mudholes and AZ is among the top 5 in boat owneship so usually pretty churned up. I tried once but could not see my feet.
A lot of AZ divers weekend in San Diego -- about 6-7 hrs. drive or a 50 min. flight.
Our warm water diving is in Puerto Penasco, MX or San Carlos, MX. PP is about 7-8 hrs. drive depending on the border crossing,SC about an hour more. PP is way up in the Gulf so vis suffers due ti tidal exchanges.
San Carlos is a pharmacia town with some resorts/condo development and several nice beaches. It's the go tofor Phoenix/Tucson divers and there's probably 7-8 dive operations including one with about 6 boats. Decent local dibing although the corals are mostly small puddles. It's just off a deep trench so some big stuff wanders in often. The best diving is about 30-45 mims by boat at San Pero Island - there's a sea lion rookery there and we regularly see small octos and real tropical fish like Cortez Angelfish. For sharks, Scallopped Hammerheads school there in late October - it's a popular trip - one of our shops charters a bus.
The sea lions are a lot of fun, they can't wait for divers when a boat moors there. One of my shops El Mar Diving has a sister facility there and keeps a diveboat there permanently, So does 527 Diving in Tucson.
One last thing is that the Rocio Del Mar Liveaboard actually is based in Phx although the boat moves between Puerto Penasco or Cabo San Lucas depending on where they're going. I know the owner - Dura Sandoval - as she used to attend our club meetings when they built it. They now have a 2nd smaller boat, Quino El Guardian that does research trips you can join. When the boat is in PP for tje si,,er. their shuttle originates at the Phx Airportt.
For being a desert city with little decent diving. we have close to a dozen dive shops - most wihin 30 min of my area, Here also good skiing is 3 hrs. north - we hae a cabin in the tall pines near Flagstaff that's 2 hrs. 20 mins. door to door. It's a 7000' near several good Fishing lakes - too murky to dive. Also the resort area of Sesona is about 90 mins NW of here - famous for the red rocks. The Grand Canyon south rim about 4 hours north. Lake Mead about 6 and Las Vegas past that. Vegas dive shops teach at Mead.
Pro's/cons of each.
Phoenix became ab attractive option for people fleeing SoCal about a decde ago. Prices are aLot cheaper and are finally starting to rebound. My friend just bought a really nice house, 5br, 2 car detatched garage, big rooms, all professionally landscaped with planters, big trees, on what must be 1/2 acre lot - others in his area have horses and there's enough land that you could put in a shop in tha backyard and hardly see it. He paid $330K. He and I live in NW Phoenix about 45 mins. from downtown. Buses here mostly run on the hour - every specific city also has Dial-a-Ride service which takes you anywhere in the city for $2.
Our freeways are horrible twice a day. I-17 runs N/S in the state and I-10 E/W. If it's not rush hour they're relatively ubcrowded but busier than they used to be. There are also loop roads (state freeways) in several concentric circles around town at various intervals. Downtown Phoenix has been trying to invent itself as a hub ever since I moved here in the 80s and recently some progress was made with both the AZ Diamondbacks baseball stadium and whatever they call the Phoenix Suns basketball stadium next door. Out in west Glendale just off I10 we have Cardinals football and Roadrunners hockey next door - both in an entertainment mall/complex.
You will drive a lot here, I used to work at ASU in Tempe and my commute was 30-45mins, Phoenix has sereal well regarded museums, the Phoenix Symphony and because several Indian reservations border the east side - full casino gambling.
Lots of parks, the North Mountains Preserve was set aside decades ago - no one can build on it but there's hiking trails that go for miles. Pretty good system of bike trails also - the CAP canal brings in water and much of it has hiking/biking and tunnels so you don't have to cross the street - there's even one under I17 in one area. I've ridden over an hour and not had to stop.
It's hot here but like I tell my friends back east - you don't have to shovel heat. I gp fom A/C to A/C - the only issue is the car gets hot in uncoverd parking.
Instead of Tempe which just about doubles in size when ASU is in session look a little farther SE. Mesa is nice, Chandler nice and upcoming Intel has a big Fab facility and Gibert is pretty nice also. NW of Phoenix Sun City is one of the largest active adukt communities (no kids) and beyond that Surprise is very well developed and newer.
There's talk that Bill Gates (Microsoft) and others are developing an entire master planned tech-focused community west of town around the 303 loop which means it's 300 blocks west of downtown. IDK what's out there now.
So now to diving - we have ome lake - Lake Pleasant about 30 mins. north of town. Typical lake, there's boat traffic but areas are set aside for divers. Most shops use it for training but rhere's no wrecks or anything. They did add a new dam some years ago and blew a big hole in the old one - since the lake filled in it's now a tech dive due to depth, murkiness amd exposed rebar, Someone recently died there.
There are 4 lakes east of Phoenix but they're all mudholes and AZ is among the top 5 in boat owneship so usually pretty churned up. I tried once but could not see my feet.
A lot of AZ divers weekend in San Diego -- about 6-7 hrs. drive or a 50 min. flight.
Our warm water diving is in Puerto Penasco, MX or San Carlos, MX. PP is about 7-8 hrs. drive depending on the border crossing,SC about an hour more. PP is way up in the Gulf so vis suffers due ti tidal exchanges.
San Carlos is a pharmacia town with some resorts/condo development and several nice beaches. It's the go tofor Phoenix/Tucson divers and there's probably 7-8 dive operations including one with about 6 boats. Decent local dibing although the corals are mostly small puddles. It's just off a deep trench so some big stuff wanders in often. The best diving is about 30-45 mims by boat at San Pero Island - there's a sea lion rookery there and we regularly see small octos and real tropical fish like Cortez Angelfish. For sharks, Scallopped Hammerheads school there in late October - it's a popular trip - one of our shops charters a bus.
The sea lions are a lot of fun, they can't wait for divers when a boat moors there. One of my shops El Mar Diving has a sister facility there and keeps a diveboat there permanently, So does 527 Diving in Tucson.
One last thing is that the Rocio Del Mar Liveaboard actually is based in Phx although the boat moves between Puerto Penasco or Cabo San Lucas depending on where they're going. I know the owner - Dura Sandoval - as she used to attend our club meetings when they built it. They now have a 2nd smaller boat, Quino El Guardian that does research trips you can join. When the boat is in PP for tje si,,er. their shuttle originates at the Phx Airportt.
For being a desert city with little decent diving. we have close to a dozen dive shops - most wihin 30 min of my area, Here also good skiing is 3 hrs. north - we hae a cabin in the tall pines near Flagstaff that's 2 hrs. 20 mins. door to door. It's a 7000' near several good Fishing lakes - too murky to dive. Also the resort area of Sesona is about 90 mins NW of here - famous for the red rocks. The Grand Canyon south rim about 4 hours north. Lake Mead about 6 and Las Vegas past that. Vegas dive shops teach at Mead.
This is precisely why I live in Seattle now!
Skulmoski
Contributor
Asia - lots of options in so many aspects of life.
Asking again how close do you want to be to a city? In much of rural America you can buy a shuttered retail building or shop on what was the main street (before Walmart and then Amazon killed them) for well under $100k. Housing is equally cheap although the quality is likely not great.
Here's a couple of examples of commercial listings in the little town in southern Illinois where my mother grew up and I spent all my summers as a child. The closest major city is St. Louis , which is 2 hours west. There is a Walmart and a Tractor Supply though
117 E. North Avenue,$59k 6840 sq ft, half block of stores on main street
114 B Camelia Road $62k, 2412 sq ft 4 bay shop
Here's a couple of examples of commercial listings in the little town in southern Illinois where my mother grew up and I spent all my summers as a child. The closest major city is St. Louis , which is 2 hours west. There is a Walmart and a Tractor Supply though
117 E. North Avenue,$59k 6840 sq ft, half block of stores on main street
114 B Camelia Road $62k, 2412 sq ft 4 bay shop
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About Tucson - In many ways it's a smaller Phx, Only 1 Interstate and it's ringed by high mountains, you can ski Mt Lemon in the morning and relax at your pool a couple hours later.
Oddly it's really dark there, they have light control die to nearby Kitt Peak observatory. Pleasant but hard to read signs. It's partly a military town, Davis-Monthan airbase is in town - the plane graveyard, there's acres and acres of them. The north side is pricier around the Sabino Canyon area but you will be surprised how much house you can get reasonably elsewhere. Raytheon is a big empoler in SE Tucson so that area s built-up. UofA is also near downtown. Other attractions are the Pima Air/Space Museum, they get better planes than some being near DMAFB and the failed Biosphere a little south of Tucson. There's also the Titan Missile Museum and the Arizona-Sonora Desrt Museum is world class, A few hours closer to Mexico abd my sister lives ib Corona De Tucson just south of town, Nice neighborhood and in 10mins. I can be in the mountains - they live in the desert.
Tucson is more ramshackle than Phx, ex - drving into town you pass an industrial area, a large housing development, a rock quarry then 2 mins later downtown. Property on the fringes is cheap so many people own acreage. Decent airport but some flights still feed ibto Phx which is a world class Int'l departure point, I can be in Hawaii or the Caribbean in 1/2 day. SDO/LAX hourly, SFO or DFW/IAH under 3 hrs.
Everyone I've met there is usually very friendly, I pulled over once to take a 5min call and 2 different people stopped to see if I needed help. My sister calls it a small town big town. Her husband like rural areas and is happy there. A lot of area even ib town have properties that butt up to the desert or a wash - usually dry but if it rains they can be feet deep in minutes. We reliably see several people rescued any time there's a lot of rain.
Oddly it's really dark there, they have light control die to nearby Kitt Peak observatory. Pleasant but hard to read signs. It's partly a military town, Davis-Monthan airbase is in town - the plane graveyard, there's acres and acres of them. The north side is pricier around the Sabino Canyon area but you will be surprised how much house you can get reasonably elsewhere. Raytheon is a big empoler in SE Tucson so that area s built-up. UofA is also near downtown. Other attractions are the Pima Air/Space Museum, they get better planes than some being near DMAFB and the failed Biosphere a little south of Tucson. There's also the Titan Missile Museum and the Arizona-Sonora Desrt Museum is world class, A few hours closer to Mexico abd my sister lives ib Corona De Tucson just south of town, Nice neighborhood and in 10mins. I can be in the mountains - they live in the desert.
Tucson is more ramshackle than Phx, ex - drving into town you pass an industrial area, a large housing development, a rock quarry then 2 mins later downtown. Property on the fringes is cheap so many people own acreage. Decent airport but some flights still feed ibto Phx which is a world class Int'l departure point, I can be in Hawaii or the Caribbean in 1/2 day. SDO/LAX hourly, SFO or DFW/IAH under 3 hrs.
Everyone I've met there is usually very friendly, I pulled over once to take a 5min call and 2 different people stopped to see if I needed help. My sister calls it a small town big town. Her husband like rural areas and is happy there. A lot of area even ib town have properties that butt up to the desert or a wash - usually dry but if it rains they can be feet deep in minutes. We reliably see several people rescued any time there's a lot of rain.
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