Help Identifying Older Scubapro 2nd Stage Please

[ReneB]

A friend's husband is no longer diving and has offered us some of his gear. As a newly certified diver, please forgive my ignorance if I am not using all the correct terms, ok .
I'm looking for some help to ID this equipment but mostly to see if it's worth servicing and using. The person who's selling the equipment is someone that generally takes good care of his stuff, we were told that when it was all put away (about 2-3 years ago) all was working well.


I think this is a MK 10 Regulator and an unknown 2nd stage (could it possibly be a version of the R109?). If there is anything else in the pictures you can help me ID, please feel free!

I'd like to know, please, is the 2nd stage worthy of servicing? I gathered from poking around on this forum a bit that the MK10 is definitely worthy, but I have no idea re. the 2nd stage.

Just to give some background, my son and I are newly certified, and to date all of our skin and scuba diving have been done in warm tropical and subtropical waters. However, we live in the Fingerlakes region of NY and are very interested in exploring them. We know that there are some wrecks at a nearby lake (Seneca) and the Erie Canal system throughout the other lakes in the region also have some features worth exploring. That means that perhaps we'd need this regulator/2nd stage to work in colder waters too.

Thanks in advance for your help folks!

 

[Fishpie]

Yes, it's worth servicing.
It's either a 109 or a 156 Balanced Adjustable, probably the latter.

 

[redacted]

That 2nd started life as a 109 but has had some modification based on it having a plastic adjustment knob found one newer G250s. The 109 is fairly indestructible but if dropped hard on the knob it can be bent. It is not a problem. Inside it is either the original barrel poppet adjustable or it could be upgraded to the somewhat higher performance Balanced Adjustable. In any case, it looks like it has had a very active, hard life but is well worth servicing and continuing that life. If you run into a shop that tries to tell you it is too old to service, find another shop. It is a great regulator.

 

[halocline]

Unless you have dry suits, you won't be in water cold enough to freeze that regulator. It does appear to have been serviced with a G250 blue diaphragm and adjustment knob, so my guess is that there's a s-wing poppet inside.

If you get it working right, it's a truly get reg.

 

[ReneB]

Great and thanks for the info everyone. I have no idea what a s-wing (or any other poppet) is but I can learn .

Anything in particular I should look for in terms of servicing? That is, a certain type of shop, technician, etc.?

---------- Post added April 8th, 2013 at 11:47 PM ----------

I have no idea if this is of any use, but I did just find a serial number on the 2nd stage -- though none was to be seen on the regulator.

0905895

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have been using that same second stage for about the last 6-8 years. It seems to work about as well as any other second stage I have tried. Some people complain that they are heavy, but I don't notice it at all. I really like having an adjustment knob, on the second stage. The metal second stages can take a lot of abuse that would crack a plastic or polymer second stage. So they replaced the metal adjustment knob with a more modern G-250 knob made of plastic on that reg?

 

[Six2Life]

I've previously posted this elsewhere and I think it is solid advice for someone about to have a scubapro 2nd stage shop serviced. It is even more applicable to the 109/156 since it doesn't require the barrel or viva orings. The only thing I would add is to have the tech make sure the lever is compatible with the new poppets and if in doubt replace it with the latest version.

Most people that have their G250 or 156 serviced at a shop probably don't realize that for pretty much the same price as the service kit (about $20), which like you said has almost nothing in it; they can get a new poppet with seat and orings, a new spring, and a new balance chamber. The only thing missing would be the 2 air barrel o-rings which probably don't need to be replaced anyways. So if anyone reading this has their reg shop serviced, when you bring it in tell them you want these parts instead of the service kit:

G250 poppet 11.250.015
G250 balance chamber 11.150.102
G250 spring 01.020.216

Also tell them that you want the old parts that were removed returned to you so you can verify that the work was actually done. Then either keep those parts for spares since they are most likely perfectly good (the shop wouldn't have replaced them anyway if you didn't tell them to), or offer them for sale here or on ebay to offset some of your service costs.

 

[halocline]

There's no reason to replace the poppet, balance chamber, and spring unless they're damaged or you're upgrading from an earlier set of internal parts. You only need the seat and 4 o-rings, one for the orifice, one for the adjustment knob, the 2 small balance chamber o-rings. It's debatable about replacing those every service unless there's a problem. You might want to replace the o-ring in the hose as well.

That's one of the best things about the old metal case barrel poppet 2nds. Once they're updated and working well, the service parts "kit" consists of 4 o-rings and a seat. So in that sense I strongly agree that buying the SP rebuild kit for this 2nd stage is a waste of money. It has all the o-rings for the S600.

---------- Post added April 9th, 2013 at 09:00 AM ----------

Great and thanks for the info everyone. I have no idea what a s-wing (or any other poppet) is but I can learn .

Anything in particular I should look for in terms of servicing? That is, a certain type of shop, technician, etc.?

You'll have to find a service tech that understands and appreciates the old SP regulators.

Here's a short list of the things I would be looking at if I had bought this reg and I was rebuilding it. You might ask the tech about this stuff; hopefully he'll already be aware of it and won't get too annoyed.

1. On the first stage, look for IP creep. If there's any, and MK10s can get a little creepy at times, I'd give the piston knife edge a good inspection with a jeweler's loupe. If there are any imperfections in that edge, I clean them up with a bit of micromesh. Most repair techs will just tell you to replace the piston, but unfortunately SP does not make those pistons anymore. I've never seen one that could not be successfully honed and cleaned to the point where there's no creep.

2. Also on the 1st stage, look for corrosion in the ambient chamber. This could be fatal for the regulator if it's badly corroded. Most are not.

3. On the 2nd stage, check to make sure that the poppet, spring, and balance chamber are the current SP parts for either the G250 (balanced) or G200 (unbalanced, 'duro' poppet and spring only). If not, replace them.

4. Make sure that the lever works well with the newer style poppet; it sits at the correct height and doesn't get hung up on the tabs on the poppet. This takes a bit of understanding of how these regs really work and it seems to be a bit of a crapshoot as to how well the older style levers work with the current poppet. The easiest, most foolproof, and expensive solution is to replace the lever with a newer version. I have done that on several of my old 109s, and it's always made them breathe better.

5. Make sure the air barrel in the 2nd stage is good and clean; you might need a small brush to do it thoroughly.

6. Make sure there's no corrosion underneath the exhaust valve, and make sure that the diaphragm and exhaust valve are in good shape.

7. Be thorough with the lubrication on the adjustment knob and on the 2 small screws that hold the clamp together. Those get stuck all the time.

 

[rhwestfall]

I've been diving that set-up for 25 years..... wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. That one, as said, seems to have had a "hard" life, but I will tell you I have some that are even worse cosmetically, and still function as if new. Follow the advice here, and its some good diving in your future. Don't let them tell you its too old to dive or be repaired....

 

[ReneB]

Thanks again everyone for all your help and advice!!!

The possible issue is finding an appropriate tech near where I live. There are no dive shops in the nearest big town (very small city) that are Scubapro dealers. There is one in Syracuse (ca. 50 miles away) and the next closest ones are 3 hours away. Are there any techs/shops that accept mailed in repairs that any of you would recommend? Perhaps I can send this equipment out for service. I'd rather send it to someone that knows and understands this old gear than deal with folks that just want me to replace 'that old thing' with something they'd sell me.

I'm actually pretty handy with tools and repairs (cars, plumbing, etc.), but I realize that this is all foreign to me so there's no way I'd do this on my own as a first project. I'd much rather DIY something that isn't as critical (e.g., life support!) and does not require specialized equipment.

thanks again!