heart murmer? Can't dive?

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A while ago i was told that i could never dive (to my GREAT!!! disappointment) because i have a heart murmer. I believe that i have a tiny hole between the 2 chambers inside of my heart and was told that bubbles forming on the ascent could stick here and cause complications? i was wondering if this is correct and that i cannot ever dive? :( they said that sometimes these can heal up, just wondered if anyone else has a hole in the heart and dives?

Also, would any organisations allow me to train in the knowledge of my heart murmer if i signed a disclaimer ommiting them of any responsability if anything were to happen whilst diving with them? cos i really wanna dive!!

Rite all done now, any replies welcome, thanks all :)
 
patent foramen ovale is a small hole between the chambers of the heart. This is very common with estimates from 30% to 40% of the population having the condiction to some degree.

For a pretty good article on PFO and diving see:

http://www.divermag.com/archives/may99/divedoctor_may99.html

I have had students through the military that had the condition and it was repaired. (cauterized with a prope inserted through the femoral artery)

In my opinion you should get second opinion...

A heart murmer is something else entirely but most likely will not present a disqualification to diving either...

Check out this site and look under heart problems for more information...

See the section on Mitral Valve Prolapse

http://www.scubamed.com/divmed.htm

Good luck on your finding!!

Jeff Lane
 
A while ago i was told that i could never dive (to my GREAT!!! disappointment) because i have a heart murmer. I believe that i have a tiny hole between the 2 chambers inside of my heart and was told that bubbles forming on the ascent could stick here and cause complications? i was wondering if this is correct and that i cannot ever dive? they said that sometimes these can heal up, just wondered if anyone else has a hole in the heart and dives?

deepdiver359,

first try to find out what is causing this murmur. It may be an Atrial Septal Defect or other nasty congenital defect, which is generally considered as a contra-indication to diving.

Now, I had one of those (more specifically a perforated atrial aneurysm) and I had it surgically closed by means of a septal occluder. Not only for diving, but also because having a shunt increases the possibility for stroke and some other heart problems.

My 2 cents: contact a cardiologist who knows something about diving, and get his professional opinion - ask for a transesophageal echocardiography to quantify the degree of shunting (if any).

If the hole between both atria is small enough, you may be considered fit to dive if accepting certain limitations (such as depth, using nitrox with air tables, no repetitive dives etc.)

On the other hand, if the hole is BIG enough, you may want to check out possible closure before starting to dive.

HTH

Steven
 
Patent foramen ovale (PTO) is an opening between the two upper chambers of the heart. Its size varies, and while most are small, not all are. In some folks it’s large enough to cause exercise intolerance, difficulty breathing & recurrent respiratory infections.

As regards estimates of prevalence, commonly cited figures are more like 20-30% than 30-40%.

Repair by cauterization with a probe inserted through the femoral artery often is no longer considered the technique of choice. If the PFO is of the appropriate location & size, a tube can be advanced up the femoral artery and one of several types of little double umbrella-like devices inserted. These cover each side of the hole and close it. Over time, heart tissue grows over the implant, becoming part of the heart. However, some PFOs require surgical closure, either with sutures alone or a tissue patch.

BTW, you asked about it healing spontaneously. To the best of admittedly limited knowledge, if it has not closed by adulthood, it is not going to close by itself.

Here is a brief & simple piece that you might find informative. It's an edited version from my "Ask RSD" column in the Apr '00 issue of "Rodale's Scuba Diving" magazine:

"1. What is patent foramen ovale (PFO)?

PFO is an abnormal opening between the right and left upper chambers of the heart.

It is normal for blood to flow through a small opening between these two chambers during fetal development when the lungs are inoperative and blood is oxygenated by the mother. At the moment of birth, however, changes in chamber pressures cause this membranous opening to close, shunting blood to the now functioning lungs. While usually permanently sealed by the 3rd month of life, this does not always occur; about 25%-30% of people have an incomplete closure of varying size. Without complete closure, blood can flow from the right to the left side of the heart without passing through the lungs, causing a decrease in the amount of oxygen reaching the body. This may limit exercise tolerance, although generally is a problem only when the opening is quite large. The majority of otherwise healthy persons with PFO, many with only small openings, are entirely unaware they have the condition. It typically requires no treatment in the adult.

Of significance to divers with PFO is the increase in right chamber pressure which occurs with common equalization techniques like the Valsalva maneuver. Under this condition, nitrogen bubbles that can form in the venous bloodstream during decompression may pass directly into the arteries without the filtering action of the lungs. Divers with PFO can develop decompression illness (DCI) manifestations ranging from relatively harmless skin rashes to serious neurological problems such as vertigo or paralysis.

Studies have shown that a high percentage of divers who had otherwise unexplained incidents of DCI, especially Type II DCS, turned out to have PFO. In addition, the risk of severe decompression sickness appears to be about three to five times greater in those with PFO as compared to the general diving population, although the relationship is much weaker for only small openings.

Research has also found that high frequency divers have an increased likelihood of large and/or multiple brain lesions in those with PFO, particularly if the opening is large. This is not surprising, as bubbles passing into the brain can obstruct blood vessels.

PFO is often diagnosed by routine echocardiography, a simple procedure where sound is passed through the chest wall to the heart and its echo measured. If abnormalities are detected or suspected, this may be followed up with a more complicated echocardiogram where the sound transducer is passed down the esophagus to the region of the heart.

Despite the finding of increased risk of DCI in divers with PFO, the risk is still quite low. Most dive medicine experts do not recommend echocardiogram as a routine procedure in healthy divers. However, a history of unexpected DCS, especially Type II, or multiple episodes of any type, is reasons to further evaluate for the possibility of this cardiac defect."

You also mention having a heart murmur. This is not necessarily something else entirely from the general type of cardiac abnormality seen in PFO, but it does not arise from "very tiny" openings. A more severe form of this sort of abnormality is called atrial septal defect, and it does include heart murmur. However, this is a more serious condition with other signs & symptoms, such as fainting & a bluish or purplish tinge to the skin and mucous membranes noted at an early age.

Is there some possibility that you have a heart condition in addition to or other than PFO? Also, under what set of circumstances was your heart defect diagnosed?

Finally, you inquire if any organizations would allow you to train given knowledge of your status. Regardless of any disclaimer/waiver that you may be willing to sign, in the face of such a disorder any reputable agency will require written clearance from a physician.

This is educational only and does not constitute or imply a doctor-patient relationship. It is not medical advice to you or any other individual, and should not be construed as such.

Best regards.

DocVikingo
 
I would agree with steevke that you should consult with a cardiologist on it.

I do not recall any side effects from the procedure and know they did it while the patient was awake... I can not recall if it was out patient or if he had to stay for observation.

He is working as a commercial diver right now and suffers no side effects from the operation... (he had PFO)

Good luck and please let us know the results,

Jeff Lane
 
The potential risks, complications & side effects will at least in part depend upon on exactly what your heart abnormality consists of, and what technique(s) are used to address it.

Best regards.

DocVikingo
 
deepdiver359 once bubbled...
.....because i have a heart murmer. I believe that i have a tiny hole between the 2 chambers inside of my heart and was told that bubbles forming on the ascent could stick here and cause complications?....

I only have limited experience in this area.

Has it actually been confirmed the defect is in the atrial septum? i always believed the murmur arising from such a defect is, if anything only minimal, more noticed by fixed-splitting of S2. If anything murmurs due to ASD's are more likely due to increased flow through other valves. Could the hole (and more audible) murmur be attributed to a VSD, also a possible congenital problem? If so, do the same problems persist?
 
My heart murmer is congenital and is detectable by every doctor that has ever examined me, but it has not kept me from diving or slowed me down. Have to have antibiotics before goin to the dentist but other than that it has been a non-issue.
 
Twatto asked if Ventricular Septal Defects (holes between the lower, larger chambers of the heart) have the same implications as PFOs. I have a significant VSD (about the size of a nickel), so I was interested in it. (NOTE: I know of no cardiologist with diving knowledge, so all info to follow is from my own training and deduction.....and the fact that I am not dead:wink: )

If the hole in your heart is a VSD, the murmur is very noticable, pan-systolic crescendo-decrescendo. This means that instead of sounding like a "lub-dub", your heartbeat is more like a washing machine sound. This condition is congenetal, and will not heal spontaneously.

The reason that VSD is not as dangerous is because the left side of your heart (side that pushes blood to your body) is stronger than the right side (pushes blood through your lungs). Since the ventricals contract at the same time, the net effect is that more blood goes back through the lungs than is supposed to, but "blue" blood doesn't leak into systemic circulation. Since ventricals are much stronger than atria, the reverse shunt is far less likely. Blood that hasn't gone through the lungs is much more likely to carry microbubbles, and this is the danger of the PFO.

Side effects of VSD are nominal......you get aerobically tired easier, you have pulmonary hypertension (high blood pressure in your lungs), you can oxygen starve yourself if you work out too hard and pass out, and there is potential for heart failure from the extra work done by the right side of the heart.

I consider myself fit for diving, and have completed numerous courses, including advanced nitrox and decompression diving without incident.

FWIW
Wetvet
 

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