Good diving manners were covered in my OW and a couple of the specialties such as boat. Don't know if they were part of the course manual, I have not checked, but I remember them being covered.
Has SCUBA training gone too far?
- Thread starter Aqua-Andy
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OP
Aqua-Andy
Contributor
Thanks for all the posts, I have been busy and not had time to check back. I guess what really bothers me the most is this over zealous selling of classes just devalues diver education more than it helps it. All the extra classes could be great for the right person but let's not call them "certifications". I agree a photography class would be beneficial to most divers with a camera if taken from someone proficient in the subject matter, but to get a certification card and be able to say I'm a "certified under water photographer"? SSI pushes the "master diver" cert, take open water plus four other certs and stress and rescue. You are now a "MASTER DIVER". Really? I would consider someone with thousands of dives all over the world under varying conditions spanning several decades to be a master diver, not someone with 50 dives and a large pocket book.
T.C.
Contributor
scottishscuba
Contributor
No-one forces anyone to do any of the "superfluous" specialities though.
I've done PADI (shoot me now) Drysuit, Underwater Naturalist, and Nitrox courses in addition to OW and AOW. I am a cautious person and like to do courses and dive with more experienced people. Not everyone has experienced friends and charters easily on their doorstep. I dive on holiday so prefer to go on guided dives (the shame) or do courses. I'm planning to do my PADI Rescue diver next. I see it as part of my continuing education and a way of gaining skills.
I may do my UW photographer as I enjoy photography on land. I'm considering my deep diver too (then horror of horrors, applying for my Master Scuba Diver cert )
I like taking classes, though I agree that the instructor is the key to all of this. I'm happy that the instruction at my favoured dive centres abroad is very good.
I've done PADI (shoot me now) Drysuit, Underwater Naturalist, and Nitrox courses in addition to OW and AOW. I am a cautious person and like to do courses and dive with more experienced people. Not everyone has experienced friends and charters easily on their doorstep. I dive on holiday so prefer to go on guided dives (the shame) or do courses. I'm planning to do my PADI Rescue diver next. I see it as part of my continuing education and a way of gaining skills.
I may do my UW photographer as I enjoy photography on land. I'm considering my deep diver too (then horror of horrors, applying for my Master Scuba Diver cert )
I like taking classes, though I agree that the instructor is the key to all of this. I'm happy that the instruction at my favoured dive centres abroad is very good.
I don't think that anyone is getting the underwater photo certs and throwing down the card at the bars to get free drinks or chicks. Everyone in the diving community knows what the card means. So again the value is to the person that is taking the class. Some people get a lot out of the fish ID course, me I don't care really but not gonna fault people that do enjoy those certs. In the end who cares if they call it a cert or whatever, it doesn't have any effect on me or anyone really.
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Absolutely. I do stick to my guns in saying that some of these certs. should not count toward (PADI) MSD. I think that does devalue MSD. But that's an old old discussion.
OP
Aqua-Andy
Contributor
You must be using the wrong card then. I used this Dive Masks by HydroOptix -- Visionaries -- Earn Your PADI Certification card and partied like a rock star
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T.C.
Contributor
With or without the massive bug-eye lens?You must be using the wrong card then. I used this Dive Masks by HydroOptix -- Visionaries -- Earn Your PADI Certification card and partied like a rock star
You must be using the wrong card then. I used this Dive Masks by HydroOptix -- Visionaries -- Earn Your PADI Certification card and partied like a rock star
That's just sad; it underlines the answer to your question now doesn't it? Diving certifications are less and less about quality education and more about making a buck...
If I may add my opinion to this discussion. Firstly I agree with others here that there should be a distinction between a certification and an experience (or better still specialist subject education) While some subjects are clearly a Certification (Using PADI descriptions OW, AoW, Rescue, dry suit, Nitrox, Cave, wreck, et Al) you can debate which category the others fit in to. Some people want to learn more - some don't But there are some contradictions. for instance when I did my OW I was on vacation - After my cert I dived with the Dive shop for a further 14 dives all off a boat - however apparently this didn't' earn me a boat diving specialty as I needed to pay extra for that. They freely admitted that there was nothing else I'd learn about boat diving by sitting the course, but that was the way it was. Remember I was a newbie diver at this point, and had only experienced this dive shop and this destination so believed everything I was told.
This is not an Agency bash:
It is my PERCEPTION that PADI break their courses into bite size chunks. Lets take the OW course. You can easily get a cert in 4 days on vacation thus not eating into your free time too much especially if your partner doesn't want to learn. If you take the BSAC method then the OW (called ocean diver) is 7 classroom lessons and 5 dives, has a rescue element built in and requires you complete 120 mins underwater to gain your cert. Note: I'm Not a BSAC certified diver so am going off their website.
BSAC (it appears) is set up for learning as part of a club so you get contentious assessment and require your log book to be signed off at the end of each dive when you have completed each module or task.
Note BSACconsider Padi OW/AoW to be ocean diver.
If you want to progress in BSAC (I'm starting the cross over hence some knowledge) then Sports diver expands and reviews on Ocean diver (I hate the terms) and includes Basic deco diving Learning to be an assistant to a DM , SMB deployment, more navigation and incremental dives to 35m Again you need a further 150mins under water post Ocean diver (this isn't a complete list you are advised to look up SUMMARISED CONTENTS OF SPORTS DIVER TRAINING PROGRAMME from the BSAC website.
From there you get to Dive leader (equal to DM although you learn to dive to 50m)
My point here is that the two agencies have a different view on the way to tech their courses. BSAC is more in depth but requires membership of a club and you to have some commitment to diving. Whereas PADI allows more people to engage and get a taster (in generally more favorable conditions as resort diving seems to be predominately PADI) thus getting more people into the sport.
The BSAC method seems to concentrate on the essential elements as skills with "educational elements being signed off as you complete them in the course of your diving career Where as the PADA (in my perception) is primarily focused at the resort diving allowing dive centers the opportunity to gain further income if people wish to have further education or a specific experience while on vacation without necessarily spending their time in classrooms and sitting exams again.
Looking at both syllabus's my opinion based on my type of diving and the fact I can dive every weekend in a club then BSAC gives me the better way to learn more core skills and improve my diving - However if you can only dive occasionally and want to enjoy diving on vacation then the bite size system may be better way and obviously gives the dive shop extra income which they clearly need as a business.
This all said if people think they need a card to take a camera underwater than it is either the fault of the agency in the way they promote this OR perhaps over selling by some (hopefully a minority) of Dive shop or operators>
This is not an Agency bash:
It is my PERCEPTION that PADI break their courses into bite size chunks. Lets take the OW course. You can easily get a cert in 4 days on vacation thus not eating into your free time too much especially if your partner doesn't want to learn. If you take the BSAC method then the OW (called ocean diver) is 7 classroom lessons and 5 dives, has a rescue element built in and requires you complete 120 mins underwater to gain your cert. Note: I'm Not a BSAC certified diver so am going off their website.
BSAC (it appears) is set up for learning as part of a club so you get contentious assessment and require your log book to be signed off at the end of each dive when you have completed each module or task.
Note BSACconsider Padi OW/AoW to be ocean diver.
If you want to progress in BSAC (I'm starting the cross over hence some knowledge) then Sports diver expands and reviews on Ocean diver (I hate the terms) and includes Basic deco diving Learning to be an assistant to a DM , SMB deployment, more navigation and incremental dives to 35m Again you need a further 150mins under water post Ocean diver (this isn't a complete list you are advised to look up SUMMARISED CONTENTS OF SPORTS DIVER TRAINING PROGRAMME from the BSAC website.
From there you get to Dive leader (equal to DM although you learn to dive to 50m)
My point here is that the two agencies have a different view on the way to tech their courses. BSAC is more in depth but requires membership of a club and you to have some commitment to diving. Whereas PADI allows more people to engage and get a taster (in generally more favorable conditions as resort diving seems to be predominately PADI) thus getting more people into the sport.
The BSAC method seems to concentrate on the essential elements as skills with "educational elements being signed off as you complete them in the course of your diving career Where as the PADA (in my perception) is primarily focused at the resort diving allowing dive centers the opportunity to gain further income if people wish to have further education or a specific experience while on vacation without necessarily spending their time in classrooms and sitting exams again.
Looking at both syllabus's my opinion based on my type of diving and the fact I can dive every weekend in a club then BSAC gives me the better way to learn more core skills and improve my diving - However if you can only dive occasionally and want to enjoy diving on vacation then the bite size system may be better way and obviously gives the dive shop extra income which they clearly need as a business.
This all said if people think they need a card to take a camera underwater than it is either the fault of the agency in the way they promote this OR perhaps over selling by some (hopefully a minority) of Dive shop or operators>
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