Has Anyone Tried These Home-Capicitator Gadgets?
- Thread starter Cacia
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I don't know much about them, and would be inclined to think it's bogus, but I won't say one way or another.
My first question would be, "What else have you done to save energy?" I wouldn't put money towards a "home capacitor" until all of my lightbulbs were flourescent, my thermostat was a digital one that would automatically change the temperature when I was away or asleep to save energy, and my water fixtures were low flow. Perhaps turn down the heat on your water heater or install a tankless one, too.
There are many things that can be done to save money that I'm certain will, so I wouldn't spend money on something uncertain until I did the other things first.
My first question would be, "What else have you done to save energy?" I wouldn't put money towards a "home capacitor" until all of my lightbulbs were flourescent, my thermostat was a digital one that would automatically change the temperature when I was away or asleep to save energy, and my water fixtures were low flow. Perhaps turn down the heat on your water heater or install a tankless one, too.
There are many things that can be done to save money that I'm certain will, so I wouldn't spend money on something uncertain until I did the other things first.
Charlie99
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Catherine, do you have a link to an article or product info page?
The only use for capacitors that I can think of is for "power factor correction". When powering a normal sort of load, the power grid voltage and current are in phase with each other --- the peak current matches up with the peak voltage. In this case the current x voltage is equal to the power.
If you have an very inductive load (usually caused by most of the power drain being electrical motors) then the peak current and peak voltage aren't at the same time. The current x voltage will be higher than the actual power. Typically, this isn't a huge difference, maybe 25 or 50%. Electrical power meters take this into account though, and you only get billed for the actual power used. The extra 25 or 50% of current that flows back and forth because of the inductive load will cause a small amount of extra loss/heating of the supply wires, but this is just a couple of percent at the very most (otherwise your wires are grossly overloaded and are a fire danger).
1. This situation doesn't occur in a normal household.
2. Although power factor correction will reduce the can reduce the volt-amps by 25% or so, this is NOT the same as reducing the power consumption or the kw-hrs billed by 25%.
3. Since most people don't understand how power meters work, they can easily fall for a scam where someone puts a voltmeter and a current meter on the power line and shows how the power goes down 25% when the capacitor is attached. What really happens though is that the volt-amps go down, while real power stays the same. Electric power meters monitor real power, which includes the voltage, the current, and the phase relationship between them.
==================== geek material below ============
more explanation about volt-amps vs. power:
For a resistive (normal) load, the current and voltage are in phase. The average of the instantaneous product of current x voltage is the same as the average current x average voltage.
OTOH, for a purely inductive (or purely capacitive) load, the current and the voltage will be 90 degrees out of phase with each other. In an AC system, power is the average of instantaneous volts times amps at each moment during the powerline cycle. For a normal load, this average of instantaneous current x voltage is the same as the average current x average voltage. OTOH, for an inductive load with 90 degree difference between voltage and current, the average of the instananeous voltage times current come out to ZERO.
The only use for capacitors that I can think of is for "power factor correction". When powering a normal sort of load, the power grid voltage and current are in phase with each other --- the peak current matches up with the peak voltage. In this case the current x voltage is equal to the power.
If you have an very inductive load (usually caused by most of the power drain being electrical motors) then the peak current and peak voltage aren't at the same time. The current x voltage will be higher than the actual power. Typically, this isn't a huge difference, maybe 25 or 50%. Electrical power meters take this into account though, and you only get billed for the actual power used. The extra 25 or 50% of current that flows back and forth because of the inductive load will cause a small amount of extra loss/heating of the supply wires, but this is just a couple of percent at the very most (otherwise your wires are grossly overloaded and are a fire danger).
1. This situation doesn't occur in a normal household.
2. Although power factor correction will reduce the can reduce the volt-amps by 25% or so, this is NOT the same as reducing the power consumption or the kw-hrs billed by 25%.
3. Since most people don't understand how power meters work, they can easily fall for a scam where someone puts a voltmeter and a current meter on the power line and shows how the power goes down 25% when the capacitor is attached. What really happens though is that the volt-amps go down, while real power stays the same. Electric power meters monitor real power, which includes the voltage, the current, and the phase relationship between them.
==================== geek material below ============
more explanation about volt-amps vs. power:
For a resistive (normal) load, the current and voltage are in phase. The average of the instantaneous product of current x voltage is the same as the average current x average voltage.
OTOH, for a purely inductive (or purely capacitive) load, the current and the voltage will be 90 degrees out of phase with each other. In an AC system, power is the average of instantaneous volts times amps at each moment during the powerline cycle. For a normal load, this average of instantaneous current x voltage is the same as the average current x average voltage. OTOH, for an inductive load with 90 degree difference between voltage and current, the average of the instananeous voltage times current come out to ZERO.
The only use i can think of for them is charging them and placing them in shoes, blankets, etc. Maybe a home capacitor is big enough to electrify the whole house! That would be awesome... the victim inserts the key into the door and whammo! That would be more of a home incapacitator though.
Who are you trying to shock Catherine? The engineer from Ikelite?
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he he he
the guy just left.
pretty funny.
The thing weighs about two ounces, I think it is a can of air.
YES, that is exactly what he did with his "demo"--he hooked an electric ceiling fan from home depot up to an amp meter, with and without the gadget. I just wanted to see the presentation to see if I could understand their claim, but had trouble getting past the "guaranteed to save up to 20%"they did not seem to understand how that is written, lol. So..you could save 1% and the claim is still true.
Thanks, Charlie for the excellent explanation, we gobbled that up.
Here is the link.
the guy just left.
pretty funny.
The thing weighs about two ounces, I think it is a can of air.
YES, that is exactly what he did with his "demo"--he hooked an electric ceiling fan from home depot up to an amp meter, with and without the gadget. I just wanted to see the presentation to see if I could understand their claim, but had trouble getting past the "guaranteed to save up to 20%"they did not seem to understand how that is written, lol. So..you could save 1% and the claim is still true.
Thanks, Charlie for the excellent explanation, we gobbled that up.
Here is the link.
Charlie99
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That's beginning to sound like something I built while in high school. Four big racks full of oil filled capacitors scavanged from an old SAGE computer. About 0.05 farad at 350 Volts. About 3000 joules (aka watt-seconds) of stored energy (a good sized underwater strobe is 100 or 200 joules). Very literally a lethal toy.
Among other tricks, I'd put a short chunk of #26 wire in the back of a capped off pipe, put a ball into the tube and then connect the capactor bank to the wire. It would nearly instantaneously vaporize the wire, shooting the ball out the other end of the pipe.
It was also great for generating huge, although brief, magnetic fields and with larger coils, made some pretty obnoxious electromagnetic pulse that would wreak havoc on most electronic gear.
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www.thexpowerenergysaver.com
the ampmeter thing got me
wouldn't a real capacitor be heavy?
Oh...and I asked the guy if he had seen the "Pursuit of Happiness" because he runs around with this thing in a big brief case. they did not think that was funny.
the ampmeter thing got me
wouldn't a real capacitor be heavy?
:11:..hey, that is not nice.
Oh...and I asked the guy if he had seen the "Pursuit of Happiness" because he runs around with this thing in a big brief case. they did not think that was funny.
I bet! It's a good thing we didn't grow up together.
That is the giantest pile of moose-poop I've ever heard.
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hey, I always check here first.
I love these forums, you can find anything
here they are talking about the same thing:
If this is the [Power-Saver 1200 you were referring to then don't waste your money. All the unit does is reduce the reactance (watt-less power) of the load. It is just a variable capacitor to correct the power factor due to inductive loads. In the video they use an amp-meter when they should have used a power meter. You cannot measure AC power with an amp-meter because you need to know the phase angle between the voltage and current. The only energy you will save with this unit will be the IR losses in the wire, which should be insignificant. There are two graphs and an explanation of power factor here from a previous thread.
Power-Saver 1200 - Debunkers
I love these forums, you can find anything
here they are talking about the same thing:
If this is the [Power-Saver 1200 you were referring to then don't waste your money. All the unit does is reduce the reactance (watt-less power) of the load. It is just a variable capacitor to correct the power factor due to inductive loads. In the video they use an amp-meter when they should have used a power meter. You cannot measure AC power with an amp-meter because you need to know the phase angle between the voltage and current. The only energy you will save with this unit will be the IR losses in the wire, which should be insignificant. There are two graphs and an explanation of power factor here from a previous thread.
Power-Saver 1200 - Debunkers
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