Has anyone noticed?

[1fmauichef]

Or is it just me..... The recent influx of DNLR patrolling the shores and handing out tickets to divers for not haveing dive flags, measuring the size of the flags, monitoring points of entry & even an arrest.

I understand the safety reasons involved with all of the above. I've just recently heard quit a few of these stories.

Is it just West Maui or what???

 

[Thalassamania]

Haven't seen it on the Big Island.

 

[fdog]

<snip>I understand the safety reasons involved with all of the above.

<snip>

I don't.


All the best, James

 

[KrisB]

I'm only aware of three sites -- one in West Maui, and two in South Maui where people have gotten grief over dive flags.

One of these sites (Mala) happens to also be a spot that the DLNR would patrol for other reasons -- i.e. appropriate permits (valid and/or commercial) on trailers/boats being launched, so they can also watch for other illegal activities (e.g. swimming in a marked navigation channel, diving without a flag, etc.). Incidentally, they're not as fascist as some of the stories make it seem -- according to the employer of an individual arrested for the swimming-in-boat-channel issue, that individual had been warned several times before the DLNR had him arrested.

Another of these sites (Ahihi), is being watched heavily for other reasons -- it just works out that they can hassle divers as well, since they're there.

The only other site I've heard of enforcement issues from is Makena Landing -- incidentally, I've heard of *several* flags having been stolen from in the water in that area, during the 45-60 minute span of when the instructor has parked it, and when they return to pick it up.

As for legal/safety issues -- I totally understand that side. If you're intentionally surfacing apart from a flag, you're a bloody idiot. Also, the idea that swimming across a marked navigation channel (i.e. approach to a somewhat busy boat ramp) being safe and prudent is, well, misguided.

However, there is a major thing lacking in this deal -- enforcement & education of the boating side. Boaters (including kayakers, canoeists, jetski operators, etc.) should be cited for violation of the 100' rule, especially if they're going faster than "slow-no-wake".

While on Oahu to observe / handle logistics for an IE last December, I watched (and took photos of) two DLNR enforcement RIBs basically do high-speed donuts around the several dive flags in the water -- slowing down only to question the freedivers in the area of the items in their catch bag... while this is technically legal (for them), it still isn't safe, nor is it setting a good example.

Finally, I think the primary reason they're looking at size is that Walmart is selling some dive floats (which are handy and good for various purposes, but not as a legal dive flag) that include a dive flag that is ~5"x4" -- about 1/4 the size of a legal-size flag.

Overall, I haven't heard of any enforcement that goes beyond what I'd hope to see -- I just hope that they get around to enforcing the rest of the statute... the part that actually makes the safety aspect sensible.

 

[bluemagoo]

Over the last 10yrs or so, a handful of relatives and friends have been tagged on Oahu. The hit is around $100+. All were shorediving and except for a couple, all were on the Waianae coast; the other two were around Haleiwa.

The reg-size flag is 12"x12"; pretty big. Scan down here:
Amendments to HAR Chapters 13-240, 13-243, 13-245 and 13-256

 

[Cacia]

cash grab---what Hawaii does best. Like the 300 dollar tickets for parking in a trailer spot that say "no signage required"

 

[kidspot]

Dove Mala today and noticed DLNR writing up a ticket to a fellow - as we were getting ready to dive another diver came over and warned us they were ticketing for no flag - I had just noticed that I'd forgotten my wetsuit, and my flag was in the wetsuit pocket - so I made the 4 block drive home and got it ... while I was gone DLNR approached my buddy asking about flags - she told them I'd gone to get it and they left. Normally I wouldn't carry one for this type of dive as we were scootering, so I carried it out to our drop point, deflated it as we descended and tucked it into my pocket for the rest of the dive, then deployed it as we began our ascent so we stayed legal. btw - I no longer enter mala from the "sand" area that makes you cross the boat channel - I've found going out over the reef (especially at high tide) to be quite easy - today we were able to scooter from shore all the way out without walking over the reef at all.

Aloha, Tim

 

[1fmauichef]

""However, there is a major thing lacking in this deal -- enforcement & education of the boating side. Boaters (including kayakers, canoeists, jetski operators, etc.) should be cited for violation of the 100' rule, especially if they're going faster than "slow-no-wake".""


KrisB- I couldn't agree with you more... Sorry to hear about the heisting of dive flags in Makenna... Bummer!

A couple of weeks ago @ Airport, boats & tourists in Kayaks were buzzing all around coming in a little to close for comfort. And that was with a dive flag!

I did hear also that the person arrested for swimming in the boat channel did get several warnings.

Also add Airport to that watch list!

Last week a DI was sitting on the park bench with some students and the same officer that gave him a ticket a couple of weeks earlier for not having a "flag" (he was using a dive inner tube/float) was at the edge of the grass in boards shorts and t-shirt casually talking on a cell incognito. Undoubtedly hunting for violators....

Going across the reef at Mala? For experienced locals/divers, really not that bad... For DI's with intro's & certs, it could get dicey...

 

[KrisB]

I'm amazed that the DLNR is showing up to Airport -- that's a private park and I've only ever seen the Kaanapali security trucks drive through, never a real cop even!

Using a float doesn't meet the legal nor safety requirements of the flag -- the instructor really should know this!

Tim: I agree that going out over the reef is easy enough, as long as the tide is high enough. I did do that dive when it wasn't, and found that, while entry was OK, the exit was getting annoying, so I cut underneath the remaining pier and climbed up onto the breakwater, then boulder-hopped the few steps until I was at the top of the ramp.

I've also made entry by boulder-hopping the breakwater until just after it rounds the corner, then doing a back-first flop into deeper water... you've got to scout out the spot for this before you get your gear on if you don't want to hike around too much. Incidentally, a DLNR officer watched us do this (while hassling another group for not having a flag) and had not issue with our point of entry.

Catherine -- I might think of it as a money grab, too... but truthfully, I think there's a safety issue and it's about time this one got enforced. I feel more strongly about dive flag laws being enforced than speeding tickets being issued... but that's just me.

If they ever start enforcing the "flag must not be displayed when there are no diving operations at present" part of the law (i.e. when I exit the water for my SI between two dives, TECHNICALLY, I'm supposed to bring my flag out of the water with me), then I'll be annoyed, jaded and thinking it's a money grab.

 

[kidspot]

Gotta say I have loved my "pocket" flag - the big "hassle" of a dive flag for me is it's one more thing to carry down to the water, which can be a lot when you're carrying a camera, scooter and stage bottle. Now I just kick out, then when ready for descent I inflate my flag, once descent is complete I pull it down, deflate and stow it in my pocket (can't tow a flag while scootering efficiently) and at the end of the dive I deploy it from depth, and once I'm back near the shore just deflate it and put it back in my pocket for a hands free exit.

Unless there is a law saying the flag must be "rigid" I'm ok - it's 12"x12"