Has anybody heard what happened to the inspiration diver.....
- Thread starter Mverick
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Didn't say it was unreliable. I said it was unverifiable, big difference
You may have firsthand evidence, I dont. Tell me how I can correct this. You are convinced, I'm not. Try getting a jury to convict on "well a guy on the internet said that someone else said"
Handset cracking problem was sorted in about late 98 so unless he was diving a very old unit, this wasn't a problem. Shark attack, strong currents, depth, cramp are all candidates
The Inspiration has evolved a LOT over the years. APD do listen and learn. But its not full proof, and there are things that can be improved on (most of it actually), but its not unsafe as some would have you believe
Martin at APD is very open about incidents and in nearly every other case, the first most people have known about it is when Martin posts to the lists (bang goes folks conspiracy theory). For obvious reasons when folks have died wearing the yellow box, the powers that be always contact the manufacturer for information. This hasn't happened this time, yet it has in the past when the death has been in the US. Martin has actually asked me for information this time
Also we strangley havn't had GI3 blowing his trumpet and making his usual assinine comments. He hasn't held back in any past case.
So as far as I'm concerned the Jury's still out
You may have firsthand evidence, I dont. Tell me how I can correct this. You are convinced, I'm not. Try getting a jury to convict on "well a guy on the internet said that someone else said"
Handset cracking problem was sorted in about late 98 so unless he was diving a very old unit, this wasn't a problem. Shark attack, strong currents, depth, cramp are all candidates
The Inspiration has evolved a LOT over the years. APD do listen and learn. But its not full proof, and there are things that can be improved on (most of it actually), but its not unsafe as some would have you believe
Martin at APD is very open about incidents and in nearly every other case, the first most people have known about it is when Martin posts to the lists (bang goes folks conspiracy theory). For obvious reasons when folks have died wearing the yellow box, the powers that be always contact the manufacturer for information. This hasn't happened this time, yet it has in the past when the death has been in the US. Martin has actually asked me for information this time
Also we strangley havn't had GI3 blowing his trumpet and making his usual assinine comments. He hasn't held back in any past case.
So as far as I'm concerned the Jury's still out
caveseeker7
Contributor
... Madmole, defender of the poor (CCR divers) and keeper of the faith. 
Thanks for pointing out APD improvements and collecting and publishing accident data as objectively as possible.
Whoever is trying to publish accident data for people to analyze and learn from should be supported, may it be DAN, IUCRR or Madmole.
As for you, Mverick, I don't dispute that this accident occured while diving an Inspiration (I pretty much got that part), nor your getting information from relatives. It's just that I'm tired of people calling it an Inspiration accident or death without any proof the unit failed. Most likely the guy was wearing some kind of exposure suit, a mask, fins etc., none of which are part of the accident or death designation. You said yourself you didn't know what failed, nor it seems does anybody else at this point. And, with the lack of evidence, we probably won't know.
Thanks for pointing out APD improvements and collecting and publishing accident data as objectively as possible.
Whoever is trying to publish accident data for people to analyze and learn from should be supported, may it be DAN, IUCRR or Madmole.
As for you, Mverick, I don't dispute that this accident occured while diving an Inspiration (I pretty much got that part), nor your getting information from relatives. It's just that I'm tired of people calling it an Inspiration accident or death without any proof the unit failed. Most likely the guy was wearing some kind of exposure suit, a mask, fins etc., none of which are part of the accident or death designation. You said yourself you didn't know what failed, nor it seems does anybody else at this point. And, with the lack of evidence, we probably won't know.
caveseeker7
Contributor
Wrong threat. Just re-read it and edited my earlier post. Somehow the entangled guy was in my mind.
They're throwing so many fatalities at us ....
fins wake
Guest
Well, actually it wasn't. As Madmole has pointed out, there were a lot of very strange things about this case.
But when there have been other diver fatalities or accidents, in the US or elsewhere, it's been all over the papers. Not this time.
In fact, in Thomas' own dive club's newsletters, they spelled his name differently on the two occasions they mention his tragic death:
http://www.westladiveclub.org/02Feb2003.pdf
http://www.westladiveclub.org/newsltr/03March2003.PDF
Also, from these newsletters, it was clear that the facts of the accident weren't clear. Just Of course, none of this means it didn't happen or that he didn't in fact dive a YBOD, it just makes all the details very hard to objectively verify.
And remember, the issue does need objective verifying.
Well, you could change that and say that there is a very vocal group of anti-rebreather people out there who take every chance to bash the Inspiration spouting all kinds of opinion and mixing this with errors and what would appear to be deliberate untruths.
We have the Inspiration blamed for every rebreather death out there.
In one interesting case, a piece written by a famous cave diver who is not renowned for his subtlety, great writing skills or mastery of CCR basics, it was even turned into a bit of (very anachronistic) Brit-bashing: Confusing the Normandy landing beaches and conveniently omitting the one beach (Omaha) where most losses tragically occurred on 6 June 1944 ... and these are the experts?
So really, the burden of proof isn't on APD, Martin Parker (who IMHO is repeatedly slandered by these people) or the Inspiration divers ... but rather on the people who are so vehemently against them that anything apparently goes. :boom:
Now, APD doesn't need me, Madmole or Caveseeker to exconerate them or laud their products. The turtles sell themselves, literally at a rate where no other RB:s can compete. In fact, I have frequently in the past urged the US and Canadian manufacturers to obtain CE-certification so that they can properly compete with APD here in Europe. (I'm a strong believer in healthy competition.)
So why am I posting?
Simply because the purpose of a board like this for the developing divers using it is to spread facts and reasoned opinion, so that the reader can make up his or her own mind and gain some further knowledge. Hopefully that will extend to safer diving practices for all of us. This is not gained by the sort of uninformed and biased scribblings which frequently occur on the Techdiver or DIRQuest lists ... to name but just two frequent sinners ...
Finally ...
Well, here it is. Diving an Inspiration is dangerous!
Actually, all CCR:s are dangerous, whether they are Cis-Lunars, Biomarines, KISS:s or Topazes. Well, in fact, all SCR:s are dangerous as well (yup, the RB80, too).
They all require great discipline, greater-than-average diving skills (no matter what some people say, RB divers or not) and top-notch training. Nothing else will do.
They still offer advantages which open-circuit diving cannot match and in the right hands, used by the right people with the right mindsets and the very best training, they are in some circumstances safer than diving OC. Yup!
I very much regret the untimely and sad deaths of all divers when exercising their hobby of choice. I don't think CCR diving is for everybody, nor will it ever be. But it is the only way to dive for many serious divers, particularly on deep wrecks (which is inherently dangerous per se) and in the pantheon of great rebreathers, the APD Inspiration holds its own.
K.
PS! Sorry for the length of this post. DS.
fins wake
Guest
... here we go again ...
This is just what I was writing about. Loud opinions, brash comments and complete lack of measured and reasoned dialogue ...
Actually, from what I've been able to find in third-party accounts, none of what you've written has been proven . It's just opinion and innuendo. Hint: Writing it it in larger letters doesn't do the trick. :mean:
That said, I would personally welcome any verifiable facts that you may have, by private mail if you like. I'm sure Madmole would, too, so he can update his excellent - and very honest! - page on Inspiration diver deaths.
Well, I disagree! Strongly.
Diving is one of the safest hobbies and pastimes possible. Do I think I'm going to dive or end up injured when I go off on a nice reef dive to 20 metres, keeping a careful eye on my gauges and my decometer and slowly ascending? Nope.
Do I think I can handle most everything from a completely blown-out 2nd stage to a 1st stage failure to losing my mask or fins or whatever? Yup.
Is all diving as safe? Nope.
Any form of overhead diving (cave or wreck), very deep diving, low-viz or cold diving or mix thereof (e.g. deep penetration wreck dive in no-viz Baltic Sea in March) is highly hazardous. Again, the risks are managed by the best training and equipment one can afford and by progressively building up experience. I'm not the greatest diver in my part of the world, but I'm working on my skills so that I won't embarrass the people I dive with. And I dive highly redundantly when on OC in these waters ...
That's not what we're talking about here.
Yup, the Dolphin is a very safe turtle if used and serviced correctly (although accidents can still happen of course). Still, like with all constant mass flow SCR:s, you can mess up. Badly. In fact, an instructor in my parts of the woods almost killed a student on a course last year on another CMF SCR. Turned out that he set the flow too low - and didn't check it afterwards - as well as actually having too low a mix in the tank! Amazing ...
CCR:s are here to stay, as are SCR:s. Personally, I believe most of the rebreathers sold today are as safe as their manufacturers intended, if used within the proper parameters. This means that focus should be on the right mindset and the right training of the prospective rebreather diver.
Not on slagging off APD or any other manufacturer without due reason.
This is just what I was writing about. Loud opinions, brash comments and complete lack of measured and reasoned dialogue ...
Actually, from what I've been able to find in third-party accounts, none of what you've written has been proven . It's just opinion and innuendo. Hint: Writing it it in larger letters doesn't do the trick. :mean:
That said, I would personally welcome any verifiable facts that you may have, by private mail if you like. I'm sure Madmole would, too, so he can update his excellent - and very honest! - page on Inspiration diver deaths.
Well, I disagree! Strongly.
Diving is one of the safest hobbies and pastimes possible. Do I think I'm going to dive or end up injured when I go off on a nice reef dive to 20 metres, keeping a careful eye on my gauges and my decometer and slowly ascending? Nope.
Do I think I can handle most everything from a completely blown-out 2nd stage to a 1st stage failure to losing my mask or fins or whatever? Yup.
Is all diving as safe? Nope.
Any form of overhead diving (cave or wreck), very deep diving, low-viz or cold diving or mix thereof (e.g. deep penetration wreck dive in no-viz Baltic Sea in March) is highly hazardous. Again, the risks are managed by the best training and equipment one can afford and by progressively building up experience. I'm not the greatest diver in my part of the world, but I'm working on my skills so that I won't embarrass the people I dive with. And I dive highly redundantly when on OC in these waters ...
That's not what we're talking about here.
Yup, the Dolphin is a very safe turtle if used and serviced correctly (although accidents can still happen of course). Still, like with all constant mass flow SCR:s, you can mess up. Badly. In fact, an instructor in my parts of the woods almost killed a student on a course last year on another CMF SCR. Turned out that he set the flow too low - and didn't check it afterwards - as well as actually having too low a mix in the tank! Amazing ...
CCR:s are here to stay, as are SCR:s. Personally, I believe most of the rebreathers sold today are as safe as their manufacturers intended, if used within the proper parameters. This means that focus should be on the right mindset and the right training of the prospective rebreather diver.
Not on slagging off APD or any other manufacturer without due reason.
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