The North american importer will be at BTS this weekend.. Right now they aren't saying much.. Nicky is also supposed to be there... I am supposed to meet with them this weekend..
Has anybody heard what happened to the inspiration diver.....
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The North american importer will be at BTS this weekend.. Right now they aren't saying much.. Nicky is also supposed to be there... I am supposed to meet with them this weekend..
clementyn
Guest
i know this is a late post, i don't normally read in this group. i am always saddened to hear of accidents in the sport i love, doubly so in this case i just heard about today.
we dove with tomas rosenfeldt on the kona aggressor nov. 9-16 of 2002. he was a smart, funny, and genuinely warm person to be around. he was one of those people you love to meet on dive trips - a contributor to the groups fun, never rude or obnoxious. he had this latin accent that made his voice almost lyrical. he booked the trip last minute when he had some free time off of work and had already booked the fateful feb. 2003 trip back to kona when he traveled with us. he was scheduled to go with the agg. fleet on at least two other trips this year too, as i remember.
i find it hard to believe he supposedly only had 40 hours on a rebreather, as i remember, he talked about diving with it for a couple of years before this trip, on several trips all over the world and in his local so. ca. waters. he must have had at least 12-16 hours of solo rebreather bottom time on this trip alone. tomas was what most people would describe as an outdoor enthusiast... name an outdoor activity and he had done it - all over the world. neat guy.
don't get me wrong - his solo diving and resurfacing 2hours later did scare me a bit, but given tomas's personality and calm confidence, i had come to accept it as normal for him by the end of the trip. as for set times coming up, for all of us diving 21% and nitrox, the party line was "pools open, be back in time for lunch." but i did distinctly hear gui, the captain on one occasion and john, the asst. captain on another discussing tomas's planned bottom time and back to the boat time pre-dive, while i was suiting up. gui was a great captain and was apparently fired due to this accident.
as to the type of rebreather, i know little to nothing about them. i do recall hearing him call it an inspiration, but not knowing what they look like i can't be sure. i assumed that was a type, not brand...? i have video of the trip, he's probably on it with the rebreather. as for a cover, i think he used the cover over the main body of the unit, but not the cover over the horizontal tank - i seem to remember someone asking him about it and his response being about routing some part or hose...
anyway, this is all just my observations of a fun man on a fun boat during a week of memorable diving.
peace tomas. i wish it hadn't happened that way, or at all for that matter.
-lorien
we dove with tomas rosenfeldt on the kona aggressor nov. 9-16 of 2002. he was a smart, funny, and genuinely warm person to be around. he was one of those people you love to meet on dive trips - a contributor to the groups fun, never rude or obnoxious. he had this latin accent that made his voice almost lyrical. he booked the trip last minute when he had some free time off of work and had already booked the fateful feb. 2003 trip back to kona when he traveled with us. he was scheduled to go with the agg. fleet on at least two other trips this year too, as i remember.
i find it hard to believe he supposedly only had 40 hours on a rebreather, as i remember, he talked about diving with it for a couple of years before this trip, on several trips all over the world and in his local so. ca. waters. he must have had at least 12-16 hours of solo rebreather bottom time on this trip alone. tomas was what most people would describe as an outdoor enthusiast... name an outdoor activity and he had done it - all over the world. neat guy.
don't get me wrong - his solo diving and resurfacing 2hours later did scare me a bit, but given tomas's personality and calm confidence, i had come to accept it as normal for him by the end of the trip. as for set times coming up, for all of us diving 21% and nitrox, the party line was "pools open, be back in time for lunch." but i did distinctly hear gui, the captain on one occasion and john, the asst. captain on another discussing tomas's planned bottom time and back to the boat time pre-dive, while i was suiting up. gui was a great captain and was apparently fired due to this accident.
as to the type of rebreather, i know little to nothing about them. i do recall hearing him call it an inspiration, but not knowing what they look like i can't be sure. i assumed that was a type, not brand...? i have video of the trip, he's probably on it with the rebreather. as for a cover, i think he used the cover over the main body of the unit, but not the cover over the horizontal tank - i seem to remember someone asking him about it and his response being about routing some part or hose...
anyway, this is all just my observations of a fun man on a fun boat during a week of memorable diving.
peace tomas. i wish it hadn't happened that way, or at all for that matter.
-lorien
Tomas had been diving a Drager Dolphin for a while before moving to an Inspiration so he had quite a few rebreather hours. It also looks like he was diving most weekends and a lot of mid weeks as well
It looks as if he was Inspiration Trained but APD have no records of it?
>>>as to the type of rebreather, i know little to nothing about them. i do recall hearing him call it an inspiration, but not knowing what they look like i can't be sure. i assumed that was a type, not brand...? i have video of the trip, he's probably on it with the rebreather. as for a cover, i think he used the cover over the main body of the unit, but not the cover over the horizontal tank <<<
Horizontal tank with no cover says to me he was diving the Dolphin. Inspiration has NO horizontal tanks
Either way he was not experianced enough to realise solo rebreather diving is Darwin award candidate material. I'm glad to hear that the Agressor fleet also considered the dive practies on that vessel bad enough to fire someone
Was the cover on the rebreather white with a tank horizontally below it or yellow with no tanks visible?
It looks as if he was Inspiration Trained but APD have no records of it?
>>>as to the type of rebreather, i know little to nothing about them. i do recall hearing him call it an inspiration, but not knowing what they look like i can't be sure. i assumed that was a type, not brand...? i have video of the trip, he's probably on it with the rebreather. as for a cover, i think he used the cover over the main body of the unit, but not the cover over the horizontal tank <<<
Horizontal tank with no cover says to me he was diving the Dolphin. Inspiration has NO horizontal tanks
Either way he was not experianced enough to realise solo rebreather diving is Darwin award candidate material. I'm glad to hear that the Agressor fleet also considered the dive practies on that vessel bad enough to fire someone
Was the cover on the rebreather white with a tank horizontally below it or yellow with no tanks visible?
fins wake
Guest
...
This is a crucial issue and it would be good if you remembered what it looked like, Clementyn. Like Madmole, I definitely believe Thomas was diving a Dolphin ...
Dolphins have a very good safety record, but you can still kill yourself on one either by incompetence (i.e. not measuring flow rate before every dive), by carelessness (i.e. not having an Oxygauge fitted) or - in extreme cases - by being unlucky (i.e. the orifice getting clogged, specific Dolphin problem).
I'd treat any hearsay that Aggressor Fleet would fire a Captain for an accident as described above with great care. :boom: Solo diving is very much allowed on many liveaboards and worse things have happened on many liveaboard trips all over the world (not Aggressor-specific) without any action being taken.
In this case, I actually don't see the crew as doing anything wrong. Diving is a personal responsibility for trained and certified divers and anybody diving a rebreather solo is fully responsible for his or her actions. Then you are truly setting your own parameters. (Not often I disagree with the emintent Stephen, but this time I do.)
Of course, it's always sad when a diver dies, whether needlessly or not. Our thoughts go out to his family.
This is a crucial issue and it would be good if you remembered what it looked like, Clementyn. Like Madmole, I definitely believe Thomas was diving a Dolphin ...
Dolphins have a very good safety record, but you can still kill yourself on one either by incompetence (i.e. not measuring flow rate before every dive), by carelessness (i.e. not having an Oxygauge fitted) or - in extreme cases - by being unlucky (i.e. the orifice getting clogged, specific Dolphin problem).
I'd treat any hearsay that Aggressor Fleet would fire a Captain for an accident as described above with great care. :boom: Solo diving is very much allowed on many liveaboards and worse things have happened on many liveaboard trips all over the world (not Aggressor-specific) without any action being taken.
In this case, I actually don't see the crew as doing anything wrong. Diving is a personal responsibility for trained and certified divers and anybody diving a rebreather solo is fully responsible for his or her actions. Then you are truly setting your own parameters. (Not often I disagree with the emintent Stephen, but this time I do.)
Of course, it's always sad when a diver dies, whether needlessly or not. Our thoughts go out to his family.
clementyn
Guest
i can only speak to the rebreather he was using back in nov., not during the feb. accident. sounds, from your descriptions and from the link caveseeker7 pm'd that the one he was using in nov. was the drager. the outside case was a white shell with an exposed black horizontal tank across the bottom. as madmole's recent post pointed out, he told me he had been diving this rebreather for a substantial number of hours over the course of years. it sounds like maybe he had purchased the new 'inspiration' subsequent to the nov. trip, but before the ill fated feb. trip. both my husband and i remember him talking about an inspiration, so likely it was a "want to buy" conversation we're remembering. i'll see if i can find a still frame in our dig. footage.
lorien
lorien
clementyn
Guest
re: the firing of the captain
as a frequent live-aboarder, i have mixed feelings, but tend to side with fins wake. i don't necessarily aggree that the captain should have been fired in this instance. he catered to each diver's needs and wants admirably during my charter. unfortunately in this case, we'll probably never know what happened down there (human error, mechanical error, just bad luck, etc).
i don't normally find myself siding with the operators in these types of stories, but in this case, they had seen him dive without incident on an entire charter before. much more info than they normally have on their passengers. other than forbiding a paying customer (who had traveled with the 'fleet' extensively prior to and had booked at least 4 more charters with them in the future) from entering the water, what more would a reasonable patron expect them to do?
they were not accepting money to certify him as a safe rebreather diver, but rather to show him good diving value for his money. as to the speculation that the firing was a rumor, i am _sure_ he is no longer with the fleet (i.e. not just hearsay) but it is hearsay that it was only over this issue. solo diving is a routine occurance on day boats and live-aboards, i aggree that this reason alone is suspect as the sole reason for the termination.
re: darwin award waiting to happen
in my opinion, it is not my place to defend or condemn the way tomas dove. i can only take responsiblity in the way i choose to aquit myself above and below the water, commensurate with my training and experience, and in the buddy i trust to do the same. is solo tech diving a risk i choose to take? that is answered with an emphatic NO! but tomas' choice to get in the water and dive that day, how and with what equipment he wanted, was his to make. if survival of the fittest applies in this case, it is only applicable to time on this earth. this may sound hokey for only knowing him for a brief week, but it was quite evident in that time that tomas had lived more and gone after more of his dreams than most of us ever will.
as a frequent live-aboarder, i have mixed feelings, but tend to side with fins wake. i don't necessarily aggree that the captain should have been fired in this instance. he catered to each diver's needs and wants admirably during my charter. unfortunately in this case, we'll probably never know what happened down there (human error, mechanical error, just bad luck, etc).
i don't normally find myself siding with the operators in these types of stories, but in this case, they had seen him dive without incident on an entire charter before. much more info than they normally have on their passengers. other than forbiding a paying customer (who had traveled with the 'fleet' extensively prior to and had booked at least 4 more charters with them in the future) from entering the water, what more would a reasonable patron expect them to do?
they were not accepting money to certify him as a safe rebreather diver, but rather to show him good diving value for his money. as to the speculation that the firing was a rumor, i am _sure_ he is no longer with the fleet (i.e. not just hearsay) but it is hearsay that it was only over this issue. solo diving is a routine occurance on day boats and live-aboards, i aggree that this reason alone is suspect as the sole reason for the termination.
re: darwin award waiting to happen
in my opinion, it is not my place to defend or condemn the way tomas dove. i can only take responsiblity in the way i choose to aquit myself above and below the water, commensurate with my training and experience, and in the buddy i trust to do the same. is solo tech diving a risk i choose to take? that is answered with an emphatic NO! but tomas' choice to get in the water and dive that day, how and with what equipment he wanted, was his to make. if survival of the fittest applies in this case, it is only applicable to time on this earth. this may sound hokey for only knowing him for a brief week, but it was quite evident in that time that tomas had lived more and gone after more of his dreams than most of us ever will.
Not trying to disprove anything. I just want the facts
Fact is the ONLY VERIFIABLE evidence I've been able to find doesn't say what he was diving only that he died diving and that he had been Inspiration and Dolphin trained. I now do have the coastguard report and newspaper cuttings (even though all the dates dont agree!!)
The ONLY evidence that I've found that says it was an Inspiration is your postings and you saying that "His brother says" and the yellow back givaway (which is strange in itself, as it would normally have been attached to the unit he was wearing), All of which is just heresay. You may be convinced, but one persons third hand account doesn't do it for me.
If I find a written source such as a newspaper, coatsguard report or a first hand account, such as if his Brother where to post said details or a diver who was with him or on the boat can confirm that he was using one then it would be on my site like a shot. This whole incident has been strange in its lack of information unlike all the past incidents and the fact the APD have not been informed as is usual
In fact I have already written the new page on my site as I'm pretty certain this will turn out to be an Inspiration, all I need is confirmation and I can upload it in seconds, but I wont post untill it is confirmed, there are too many people who have political and financial motivation in this area who will leap on any info I post as evidence supporting their ideals. I need to make sure it is true as it is likely one day my site will be used as evidence in a court of law
I feel as sad about this as anyone else, YBOD, Dolphin or OC its a terrible loss and will effect a lot of people. I'd much rather Tomas was still with us. And in this case I dont think we will learn any lessons from his death as there could have been so many causes
The recent mails only prove he was using a Dolphin in November, what happened after that is anyones guess. I dont think anyone made the leap to this proving he wasn't on a Inspiration. I already know he used both units regularly and was helping co teach on Inspiration classes. I also know that given the choice between wearing and Inspiration or Dolphin on a fun dive which one I'd choose
Fact is the ONLY VERIFIABLE evidence I've been able to find doesn't say what he was diving only that he died diving and that he had been Inspiration and Dolphin trained. I now do have the coastguard report and newspaper cuttings (even though all the dates dont agree!!)
The ONLY evidence that I've found that says it was an Inspiration is your postings and you saying that "His brother says" and the yellow back givaway (which is strange in itself, as it would normally have been attached to the unit he was wearing), All of which is just heresay. You may be convinced, but one persons third hand account doesn't do it for me.
If I find a written source such as a newspaper, coatsguard report or a first hand account, such as if his Brother where to post said details or a diver who was with him or on the boat can confirm that he was using one then it would be on my site like a shot. This whole incident has been strange in its lack of information unlike all the past incidents and the fact the APD have not been informed as is usual
In fact I have already written the new page on my site as I'm pretty certain this will turn out to be an Inspiration, all I need is confirmation and I can upload it in seconds, but I wont post untill it is confirmed, there are too many people who have political and financial motivation in this area who will leap on any info I post as evidence supporting their ideals. I need to make sure it is true as it is likely one day my site will be used as evidence in a court of law
I feel as sad about this as anyone else, YBOD, Dolphin or OC its a terrible loss and will effect a lot of people. I'd much rather Tomas was still with us. And in this case I dont think we will learn any lessons from his death as there could have been so many causes
The recent mails only prove he was using a Dolphin in November, what happened after that is anyones guess. I dont think anyone made the leap to this proving he wasn't on a Inspiration. I already know he used both units regularly and was helping co teach on Inspiration classes. I also know that given the choice between wearing and Inspiration or Dolphin on a fun dive which one I'd choose
caveseeker7
Contributor
That killed him? Or that he was diving while getting entangled?
That is the problem we have when people post an "Inspiration death".
Or any other RB for that matter.
So is any kind of diving. Some carries a higher risk than other.
Overhead environments have different and more risks than
'recreational' scuba, as does extended range, as does rebreather diving.
That why additional and specialized training is needed and available.
That, if applied properly, reduces those risks again. CCRs, by design, offer certain advantages that make using them safer as OC by considerably reducing the risk of DCS. To simply say that Inspiration diving is dangerous is either uneducated, ignorant or stupid.
If it's called an 'Inspiration acccident' or 'Inspiration death' it is implied that the Inspiration failed and killed him. That's where most every RB diver, no matter what unit he dives, has the problem. Whenever someone has an accident it's the RB that is blamed by the ignorant. No matter if the diver had a heart attack, blew an hour worth of deco, was run over by a boat or eaten by a shark ... it was the RB fault. That's bull.
That aside, we don't have to prove anything. The people calling it a 'RB accident' or 'Inspiration death' have the burden of proof that the unit failed the diver, not the diver the unit.
So far with all fatalities that occured while diving the Inspiration that has NOT ONCE been prooven. Get it?
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