Hardest question of all

[Tamas]

What about a pontoon boat of some sort? Are those any good for diving!? They have plenty of flat deck space, some even have cabins. They can be converted for almost anything, are cheap and light.

 

[matt_unique]

There are a lot 20-30 yo Whalers in regular use. You
have a LONGER experience with a better built boat. And
spend less time doing maintenance.

The majority of maintenance in any boat is the engine. Whalers and Bayliners use the same engines (Mercury). Bayliners have a lifetime hull warranty. I assume Whalers have the same. You are spending the same amount of time doing the same maintenance as Bayliner owners AND you paid a fortune more.

I can't speak for 20 year old Bayliners or Whalers. I don't care to....what matters is how they are built now. I bought my Bayliner in 2000. There was a period of time when Bayliner made some bad boats. That's a fact....as I recall they had some fiberglass problems and used less reliable engines. That has not been the case for many years. Most old salts remember boat data from 20 years ago, a lot can change in 20 years.

--Matt

 

[matt_unique]

What about a pontoon boat of some sort? Are those any good for diving!? They have plenty of flat deck space, some even have cabins. They can be converted for almost anything, are cheap and light.

Pontoon boats are not suitable for any kind of seas. They would be great for calm seas in a lake or such.

--Matt

 

[Nemrod]

A pontoon boat is a no go in anything other than quiet water. I vote Whaler. When the going gets rough and the seas stack up that is when the difference in cost between a Whaler and other boats becomes minor. A Whaler will not sink. If fully capsized they are designed to float gunwales above the water and the engine powerhead clear of the water (thus why so many top quality small sea going boats are outboards). Why does this matter, well, Whalers are designed to be able to be driven back up on to the surface after being capsized and shed the water out the rear and the scuppers. Thus the unsinkable, unstoppable legendary nature of a Whaler. Of course, a good inflatable takes that concept even further. Unfortuantely the rigid hull inflatables are very, very expensive in this country. There are other hard boats with this capability other than Whaler but most of them cost as much or more. N

 

[Tom Winters]

Boston Whalers are great boats. I wanted to get the 22' commercial dive version with the side gunwale cutout, but my wife nixed that great idea. It was $45K in Ft Lauderdale with twin 225's I think. We wound up buying a 30' Century with twin 250's for waaaaaay less than that.
Right now, Florida is a boat buyers' PARADISE, although they don't come with 72 virgins like martyr's paradise allegedly does. After the four hurricanes of 2004, the dealer orders are down so they're very accomodating, and this has rippled down through the whole sales chain.
For many years, I had a commmercial fishing and then dive boat with a single outboard, and it worked flawlessly the whole time. I was never that comfortable operating offshore in Hawaii out of sight of land though. There were two guys from Maui who went out one day in their Boston Whaler and 14 years later, parts of their remains turned up on Christmas Island 1,400 miles away. No one ever figured that one out.
Pontoon boats have their uses too in waters suitable for them. We used them in Kaneohe Bay to ferry gear for the Japanese intro dives we did. I wouldn't use one in open waters though.

 

[matt_unique]

A pontoon boat is a no go in anything other than quiet water. I vote Whaler. When the going gets rough and the seas stack up that is when the difference in cost between a Whaler and other boats becomes minor. A Whaler will not sink. If fully capsized they are designed to float gunwales above the water and the engine powerhead clear of the water (thus why so many top quality small sea going boats are outboards). Why does this matter, well, Whalers are designed to be able to be driven back up on to the surface after being capsized and shed the water out the rear and the scuppers. Thus the unsinkable, unstoppable legendary nature of a Whaler. Of course, a good inflatable takes that concept even further. Unfortuantely the rigid hull inflatables are very, very expensive in this country. There are other hard boats with this capability other than Whaler but most of them cost as much or more. N

I agree with the Whaler capabilities as you described above completely. If I were to boat through a hurricane - I would want a Whaler too! This does not justify the cost difference for recreational boaters/divers in my opinion. The weather conditions that would swamp a non-Whaler while a Whaler still floats is beyond what most any captain would ever experience or be able to handle. No recreational captain worth their salt would go 20 miles offshore without having weather data less than 4 hours old for example. The same captain would be monitoring the weather and USCG channels for alerts. Etc., etc., etc. For normal recreational boating purposes the costs for a Whaler do not make sense in my opinion. The benefits you pay for will never be utilized whereas the same money invested into another boat with tons more comforts and conveniences will be used regularly.

--Matt

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

Stuff happens on the water. Sometimes the forecasts
wrong. A big boat's wake from the wrong angle at the
wrong instant in the swell cycle can put a lot of water
in the boat in a hurry. You can hit something. A shark
can bite the boat (it happened here a few years ago).

That's why I have a whaler. Less bucks in my pocket,
more safety.

In my sports car days, we had a saying: If you have a
$10 head, buy a $10 helmet.

 

[matt_unique]

Stuff happens on the water. Sometimes the forecasts
wrong. A big boat's wake from the wrong angle at the
wrong instant in the swell cycle can put a lot of water
in the boat in a hurry. You can hit something. A shark
can bite the boat (it happened here a few years ago).

That's why I have a whaler. Less bucks, more safety.

In my sports car days, we had a saying: If you have a
$10 head, buy a $10 helmet.

I agree, stuff definitely happens on the water and weather can happen fast. But not the kind of stuff that would swamp non-Whaler boats leaving Whaler boats unscathed as you describe. Also, the fact that a Whaler is unsinkable does not mean the events leading to a test of this benefit would not toss or injur (etc.) the occupants to the point where the benefit would no longer matter.

Hey, the Boston Whaler folks are good at selling their product. Their owners are loyal as they should be with a good product. The cost vs. benefit argument compared to other boats such as Bayliners does not hold up. Specifically on the modern boats. If we were comparing the years when Bayliner had a shi*ty product I would be in full agreement. Again this has not been the case for many years.

To close with a cost analogy: why buy a dive watch for triple the cost because it can withstand depths to 1000' when you will never come close to that?

By the way, I consider this good, clean, boat pride debate.

--Matt

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

This is not a purely financial decision. If it were, I
wouldn't have bought a boat at all, I'd be using the local
charters. I dive 70-80 days a year. My most wildly
optimistic model says that in seven years my whaler
has almost paid for itself. The pessimistic ones say it
never will.

It's the right boat for you. Maybe your Bayliner is the
right boat for you. It certainly isn't for me, but you
keep writing like it's the right boat for everyone. Neither
boat is the right boat for everyone.

I've been in a couple of situations where I was darned
glad I had a whaler.

BTW, I don't wear a dive watch. I wear a 15-20 year
old splash proof analog Seiko because it has a digital
stopwatch section that reads to .01, and I need that for
my work (computer storage system performance
analysis). It stays home when I go diving (truck and
GPS have a clock. So does my dive computer.)
Everybody's requirements are different.

BTW, my whaler cost 2/3 what my intermediate SUV
(Nissan Pathfinder) cost.

 

[donclaypool]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$/SENSE

Boats are always a compromise. My buying decision was determined by safety, maintenance, and bang for the buck. I wanted a covered bow and high freeboard to keep the sea out of the boat. I wanted the most simple and reliable powerplant I could afford. I didn't want a huge investment- Why spend $500/month + maintenance and repair costs when you can hire charter for $40-$100 per outing?

Speed is money and ego. Economy of use allows for more use.

I bought an ugly old cruiser hull in need of repair for $6000 and stripped all the carpeting and non-essentials out. Replace the Chevy V-8 for $1800 (What's the cost of a 220hp outboard powerhead?) Rebuilt the outdrive for a few hundred bucks.

It still needs plenty of work and is still ugly. BUT- I dive out of it constantly and have for the last 3 years. I can fix everything on it, but it's never stranded me. Best of all, I average just under FOUR gallons per hour on a tank of fuel.

The way I see it- poor boy wins.

Don