Half of Dead Divers on Their First 20 dives

[boulderjohn]

I just skimmed through the descriptions of deaths investigated by DAN in the 2008 report. I counted 75 total reports. In many of the cases they had no idea of the diver's certification level or experience. In 11 cases (14%), the diver was a professional (divemaster or above) a certified tech diver, or both.

It is interesting reading. I found myself shaking my head in disbelief many times.

 

[gcs118]

I just looked at the latest DAN fatality report (2008) and saw something interesting in relation to the 20 dive statistic. According to the chart on page 63, 55% of all the deaths they investigated were to divers with at least 6 years of experience, and a total of 40% had 10 or more years of experience. Less than 20% had fewer than 2 years experience.

I hope this isn't too trivial, but do they define "experience"? I ask because my first 8 years of diving was vacation diving (did about 30 dives total), so although on paper I may have looked experienced placed into a category like the above, that was surely not the case. I wonder if they have to do x number of dives per year to be considered active/experienced by DAN?

 

[dwhthediver]

More than 10 years experience with less than 20 dives? Sounds like they over estimated their skill retention, or skills period. That is why I tell new divers if you haven't been diving in the last 6 months, take a skills refresher...scuba review

 

[boulderjohn]

I hope this isn't too trivial, but do they define "experience"? I ask because my first 8 years of diving was vacation diving (did about 30 dives total), so although on paper I may have looked experienced placed into a category like the above, that was surely not the case. I wonder if they have to do x number of dives per year to be considered active/experienced by DAN?

I am pretty sure they mean number of years since certification for this statistic.

In the descriptors of individual accidents, they use the terms "experienced" or "inexperienced" frequently, but it is not clear how that is defined. In one specific case they used the word "inexperienced" to describe a diver with 20 dives.

EDIT: My point in posting this was exactly what you are talking about. If 55% of the fatalities had 6 pr more years of experience, and 50% (in general--I don't think it is precisely the same population for the two statistics), then we can assume that a pretty high percentage of fatalities were to divers who are a number of years removed from their training with not much experience in between.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I just looked at the latest DAN fatality report (2008) and saw something interesting in relation to the 20 dive statistic. According to the chart on page 63, 55% of all the deaths they investigated were to divers with at least 6 years of experience, and a total of 40% had 10 or more years of experience. Less than 20% had fewer than 2 years experience.

@boulderjohn: Meh. Bear in mind that the chart on page 64 (associated text on page 63) was derived from the investigation of 38 of the 75 reported fatalities that occurred in 2006 in the U.S. and Canada. The 38 cases were the only ones in which diver experience was known. Considering the dive activity (total number of dives conducted) of the diver population in this geographic area, we should all note the relatively small sample size of fatalities. In other words, it's difficult to make any conclusions from this.

The 55% (6+ yrs. experience) and 40% (10+ yrs. experience) statistics seem impressive until you scrutinize the root cause of fatality (and associated/contributing causes) in these more experienced divers. Reading the incident summaries in Appendix B of the DAN 2008 Report, as you've done, is pretty eye-opening. As an "experienced" diver, the take-home messages for me included:

• Don't solo dive, particularly to free an anchor.
• Operating a rebreather increases risk.
• Get a periodic physical exam to establish dive fitness, with particular attention to cardiac issues. Very important if there's a family history of heart disease.
• Maintain a normal BMI. Stay fit.
• Don't be an idiot and try to set personal depth records.

Making these observations is far better (and more comforting) than hastily concluding that being an "experienced" diver is dangerous, in and of itself.

 

[CaptRam]

Many times as a Pro Captain of a dive boat , I would get people who booked with me and I would ask (over the phone) what kind of experience do you have, and you would not believe the BS I was told- for example one guy says I’ve been diving for 10 years, and once onboard he could not hook up his Reg and BC right- many people for some reason feel the need to BS how much experience they have-and they wind up putting them self at greater risk-I find this thread very enlightening

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn:
As an "experienced" diver, the take-home messages for me included:

• Don't solo dive, particularly to free an anchor.
• Operating a rebreather increases risk.
• Get a periodic physical exam to establish dive fitness, with particular attention to cardiac issues. Very important if there's a family history of heart disease.
• Maintain a normal BMI. Stay fit.
• Don't be an idiot and try to set personal depth records.

Making these observations is far better (and more comforting) than hastily concluding that being an "experienced" diver is dangerous, in and of itself.

That's what I meant when I said I found myself shaking my head in disbelief many times. I figure that if that its what it takes to become a fatality, then I am forever safe.

How did you like the DM who died assisting an AOW class and was so over-weighted he could not get off the bottom (130 feet) without assistance and embolized on the way up?

 

[Bubbletrubble]

That's what I meant when I said I found myself shaking my head in disbelief many times. I figure that if that its what it takes to become a fatality, then I am forever safe.

Yup. Strangely, I found some comfort in reading those abbreviated case reports.

How did you like the DM who died assisting an AOW class and was so over-weighted he could not get off the bottom (130 feet) without assistance and embolized on the way up?

Likely contributing factor (if not root cause): narcosis. I suppose it's possible that he was so over-weighted that his wing didn't have enough lift...but would an "experienced" diver with half a brain ever do something like that? I don't recall the report mentioning how much ballast the diver was carrying (omitted on purpose?). If it was a ridiculous amount, why didn't his buddy talk him out of it during pre-dive checks?

The other puzzling thing is why he was even at that depth (130 fsw) in the first place. If I were an instructor, I'd choose a dive site with a hard bottom at 100 fsw. Easier to scrape up students (and apparently DMs) who are narc'ed out of their gourds, ya know.

I understand why DMs will dive slightly over-weighted while helping with a basic OW class (to be able to hand off weight to students who don't have enough), but with AOW students doing a deep dive, they should have had weighting already squared away.

 

[calicant]

I have done exactly 20 dives so I'm kind of on the cusp of statistical relevance in this thread.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Many times as a Pro Captain of a dive boat , I would get people who booked with me and I would ask (over the phone) what kind of experience do you have, and you would not believe the BS I was told- for example one guy says I’ve been diving for 10 years, and once onboard he could not hook up his Reg and BC right- many people for some reason feel the need to BS how much experience they have-and they wind up putting them self at greater risk-I find this thread very enlightening

I've had the exact same experience and there is no remedy for people being dishonest. I eventualy learned to ask people "WHEN" was your last dive? and "WHERE" was your last dive? This opens the dialog up and gives them an opportunity to convey their experience in terms that matter.

As we all know, recent experience in a similar environment is much more valuable than a "lot" of experience 10 years ago.

Generally as a dive master on charter boat, I was less comfortable with some of the AOW student divers than recently certified OW divers, because often the AOW diver had not been in the Ocean for a year or more.