Halcyon SS Inflator...
- Thread starter Erik Il Rosso
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NWGratefulDiver:
Somehow I don't believe that Halcyon would agree with your accusations. If they thought that they had an "unsafe product in the public domain" they would immediately take the appropriate action. That only makes sense. It would not be in their best interest to do otherwise.
Your comments above are entirely unprofessional if not potentially libelous. You have posted before about how unfairly Halcyon has treated you in the past... this just looks like you are after a little retribution.
Although I admit I am not smart enough to come up with the answer myself, there must be a reason for why this is happening. I have used my post-recall SS inflator for 16 months and it has been in the water between 70 and 75 times. It has never been seviced by me or anyone else, and works perfectly, smooth as glass, with not even a hint of sticking. Several people in my family also have them and have never had a problem and never had them serviced, and I know people who service theirs once every couple hundred dives and don't have a problem.
I am not trying to take away from the problems that others have had, clearly they have had a problem, and I know that is extremely frustrating, esp. with the low number of dives that people like Perrone report. But when someone is complaining, there are always more people that have the same problem but not said anything, and there are probably tons of people who have never had the problem who also don't speak up. I wonder just how big of a problem this is, from a numbers perspective... Has H shipped 10,000 of these and had 100 come back? Or have they had 50% come back?
There must be some reason why so many have the rusting/sticking problem, and a reason why some people don't. Was there an internal change to the inflator somewhere along the way that made a difference? Is water getting trapped in some of them, causing them to never really dry out? Is it happening to people who live in more humid environments? Some of these reasons might sound stupid, but maybe someone who works on these for a living might have an idea?
If it were a design flaw I would have expected more people complaining, and if it were a one-off problem I would have expected less people complaining.
I am not trying to take away from the problems that others have had, clearly they have had a problem, and I know that is extremely frustrating, esp. with the low number of dives that people like Perrone report. But when someone is complaining, there are always more people that have the same problem but not said anything, and there are probably tons of people who have never had the problem who also don't speak up. I wonder just how big of a problem this is, from a numbers perspective... Has H shipped 10,000 of these and had 100 come back? Or have they had 50% come back?
There must be some reason why so many have the rusting/sticking problem, and a reason why some people don't. Was there an internal change to the inflator somewhere along the way that made a difference? Is water getting trapped in some of them, causing them to never really dry out? Is it happening to people who live in more humid environments? Some of these reasons might sound stupid, but maybe someone who works on these for a living might have an idea?
If it were a design flaw I would have expected more people complaining, and if it were a one-off problem I would have expected less people complaining.
Jasonmh: Good points.
I can only speak about what I've personally seen / experienced. As I stated in this thread, after having the problem initially (after about 40 dives over 5 months or so) I started soaking my inflator over night in fresh water after rinsing the wing inside and out. The problem still returned.
When I see Halcyon switching to plastic inflators (after 3 version of the SS inflators) and I hear that the plastic inflators are backorderd for something like 6 weeks (as per my LDS), adding to that the other 7 or 8 people at my LDS that are also waiting for replacement LP inflators, it does seem that there is a significant problem somewhere.
At the same time, several of instructors working out of the same LDS seem to have no problems over hundrets and hundrets of dives. *shrug*
Does all that make sense? I don't know. I do know that I will no longer use the SS LPI.
Just my $0.02
Bjorn
I can only speak about what I've personally seen / experienced. As I stated in this thread, after having the problem initially (after about 40 dives over 5 months or so) I started soaking my inflator over night in fresh water after rinsing the wing inside and out. The problem still returned.
When I see Halcyon switching to plastic inflators (after 3 version of the SS inflators) and I hear that the plastic inflators are backorderd for something like 6 weeks (as per my LDS), adding to that the other 7 or 8 people at my LDS that are also waiting for replacement LP inflators, it does seem that there is a significant problem somewhere.
At the same time, several of instructors working out of the same LDS seem to have no problems over hundrets and hundrets of dives. *shrug*
Does all that make sense? I don't know. I do know that I will no longer use the SS LPI.
Just my $0.02
Bjorn
PerroneFord
Contributor
I wish I knew...
I had a great test case. Wing with less than 20 dives. Freshwater only. Soaked after EVERY dive, placed outside for 2-3 days in the Florida sun to dry.
My inflator has not "stuck" which seems to be the common complaint. I only noticed it bubbling. I am going to do a pool dive on it this Friday and see how it behaves. But I have to be honest. I have an Oriskany dive in a couple of weeks, and I am SERIOUSLY thinking of taking something else with me. Like my doubles.
I had a great test case. Wing with less than 20 dives. Freshwater only. Soaked after EVERY dive, placed outside for 2-3 days in the Florida sun to dry.
My inflator has not "stuck" which seems to be the common complaint. I only noticed it bubbling. I am going to do a pool dive on it this Friday and see how it behaves. But I have to be honest. I have an Oriskany dive in a couple of weeks, and I am SERIOUSLY thinking of taking something else with me. Like my doubles.
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Nice personal attack Stephen ... nice selective edit of my post to make your point too.Stephen Ash:
However, I'm addressing a product issue ... not "unfair treatment". I'm addressing my experiences as an instructor who was asked to use this product to train my students ... these are product issues, not issues that I may have had with persons associated with the company.
Let's stick to the issue, and leave whatever personal issues you imagine I might be having out of it ... OK?
Pictures tell the tale, Stephen ... http://thedecostop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=252243&postcount=108
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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NWGratefulDiver:
Nothing personal about this at all, Bob. I just think that you crossed the line. Read your words. You have accused Halcyon of KNOWINGLY endangering users of their product. You have accused Halcyon, a company that built its reputation on diver safety, of putting their gain above the safety of their customers.
There MAY be a problem with these inflators... I don't know. It sure seems that we read about it often enough. Nevertheless, I have to believe that Halcyon would not expose itself to the potentially huge liability of denying a problem that they knew existed. It just doesn't make any sense from a business perspective. From a personal perspective, I have to believe guys like JJ wouldn't do this either. I think that they are pretty much stand up guys and I don't think they would do what you have accused them of doing.
You probably did this already... but did you contact Halcyon directly regarding your concerns... maybe thru your shop. Did you speak to Anthony? You know he's right here on SB. And certainly, JJ would want to know if there was a serious safety issue with one of his products... you know how he is!
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Of course not ... there's nothing at all personal about calling someone unprofessional and accusing them of libel. But of course, the only way it would be libelous is if it weren't true. Pictures don't lie, Stephen.Stephen Ash:
Duh! Read those two sentences again, please! How many people have stated in the past two days that they've been manually inflating these wings? Do you think they're doing that because they need the practice?Stephen Ash:
Culpable deniability ... they teach it in business school.Stephen Ash:
I wouldn't know ... I'm not addressing this from a personal perspective. I'm addressing it from a product perspective.Stephen Ash:
Did you read my comments in this thread? Did you read my comments ... and the responses of Anthony and Cory ... on TDS?Stephen Ash:
They know ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
SparticleBrane
Contributor
Just curious Bob, how exactly do you clean off your gear? I'm not accusing you of anything, I am just curious! 
I understand the argument that they should perform without leaking air into the BC. However, I don't think that we should expect them to last forever. They are pieces of metal used in a marine environment.
Also, if you have Halcyon equipment there's a good chance you paid some serious $ for it. Why NOT take really good care of it? I look at the inflator issue just like a regulator--you use to stay alive underwater. It occasionally requires service to stay in top notch condition..why not spend an hour or two every 50-100 dives to take it apart, replace the o-rings, clean it out, and lube it?
I also do completely understand Bob's point about not instructing in Halcyon equipment. No instructor should EVER be forced to choose between the runaway student and the group still on the bottom of the pool. At that point they have NO control and that's an accident (and possibly a lawsuit) waiting to happen.
I understand the argument that they should perform without leaking air into the BC. However, I don't think that we should expect them to last forever. They are pieces of metal used in a marine environment.
Also, if you have Halcyon equipment there's a good chance you paid some serious $ for it. Why NOT take really good care of it? I look at the inflator issue just like a regulator--you use to stay alive underwater. It occasionally requires service to stay in top notch condition..why not spend an hour or two every 50-100 dives to take it apart, replace the o-rings, clean it out, and lube it?
I also do completely understand Bob's point about not instructing in Halcyon equipment. No instructor should EVER be forced to choose between the runaway student and the group still on the bottom of the pool. At that point they have NO control and that's an accident (and possibly a lawsuit) waiting to happen.
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