Halcyon products confusion

[dbg40]

The comment was in reply to someone who was slamming the comment by JJ. I'm not trying to show that a larger wing is a DIR answer, rather than there is a valid reason for producing them without "screwing over" the customer. Possible reasons include very deep diving (insane number of tanks), maybe commercial or military as well. I'm going to assume that there isn't a rebreather that would require it.

Contradiction. it was stated that, IF you are diving single, and you require a wing of greater lift than 30 lbs, you are NOT diving a "balanced rig" and are an accident waiting to happen. period. "I" happen to believe that this is incorrect, and since the wing in question is manufactured by the same one that supphosedly says it is over balancing a rig, I only seek a reasonable reply to my question. Is he right in making them for sale for use on a single rig? of is it right, that it should not be used for a singles rig because it overbalances the rig, and is an accident waiting to happen. NOT trolling, at all, I considder it a reasonable question.

 

[Twomixdiver]

If his drysuit floods, is that 30 going to provide enough lift?

I have no experience in drysuits; but doesn't flooding it make you more negatively bouyant??? I'm under the presumption that a drysuit is inflated primarilly to offset suit squeeze and not to provide bouyancy.

I'm also under the assumption that the inherrent bouyancy of the drysuit is offset by wearing lead weights. If the suits floods, the dive is thumbed, and if need be, the weights are ditched.

If you agree with me on the above, then the 30lbs wing would be sufficient. I think wearing 10lbs of ditchable weight is more preferable than the greater drag of a bigger wing.

 

[JeffG]

but seriously, why slam the guy for quoting JJ? i mean... you asked him to

Its because of the misunderstanding/interpretation of what JJ said.

The quote can be split into two parts

a)

Many divers mistakenly believe that they must have large buoyancy compensators to support their diving needs. Actually, divers do not need excessive amounts of lift; large wings, because of the additional material they require, only serve to increase drag.

and b)

However, if, in fact, a diver does need more than 65 pounds of lift for diving doubles, or more than 30 pounds for diving singles, then they do not have a balanced rig and are an accident waiting to happen.

Going to a 40lb wing over a 30lb wing (which is the context of this thread) brings into play part a). Part a..is inefficient but is not an "accident waiting to happen"


Requiring lots of lift...ie the diver is extremely negative (lets say...lots of steel deco tanks) is part b and is an "accident waiting to happen"

So the wrong conclusion was being reached from an incorrect understanding of what JJ was saying.

 

[JeffG]

I have no experience in drysuits; but doesn't flooding it make you more negatively bouyant??? I'm under the presumption that a drysuit is inflated primarilly to offset suit squeeze and not to provide bouyancy.

It depends on your undergarments. Typically, you will not lose that much buoyancy...but you could be very cold.

 

[H2Andy]

Requiring lots of lift...ie the diver is extremely negative (lets say...lots of steel deco tanks) is part b and is an "accident waiting to happen"

So the wrong conclusion was being reached from an incorrect understanding of what JJ was saying.

that quote to me seems to say that if a diver requires more than 30 lbs of lift
in a single-tank configuration, they are an accident waiting to happen

thus, a 40-lb wing for a single-tank configuration would be improper

(i understand what you are saying, but that's not how i read it)

 

[Twomixdiver]

Originally Posted by BarryNL
Is that safe? Isn't there a risk of dropping or losing the liftbag once inflated?


Tha's why you have chest D-rings.

QUOTE]

I presume that one is surfacing....Is clipping an inflated liftbag on a chest d-ring a safe practice? Isn't hand holding it safer as the air in liftbag expands on ascent???

 

[JeffG]

Is clipping an inflated liftbag on a chest d-ring a safe practice?

You would never get me doing that.

 

[dbg40]

The drag issue is a null point with the Eclipse wing. There is no discernable size difference between the 30 and 40 lb wing.

 

[JeffG]

that quote to me seems to say that if a diver requires more than 30 lbs of lift
in a single-tank configuration, they are an accident waiting to happen

thus, a 40-lb wing for a single-tank configuration would be improper

(i understand what you are saying, but that's not how i read it)

The key word is require. If you require 25lbs of lift, but buy a 40lb wing...are you soon to be toast?

 

[Halthron]

Contradiction. it was stated that, IF you are diving single, and you require a wing of greater lift than 30 lbs, you are NOT diving a "balanced rig" and are an accident waiting to happen. period. "I" happen to believe that this is incorrect, and since the wing in question is manufactured by the same one that supphosedly says it is over balancing a rig, I only seek a reasonable reply to my question. Is he right in making them for sale for use on a single rig? of is it right, that it should not be used for a singles rig because it overbalances the rig, and is an accident waiting to happen. NOT trolling, at all, I considder it a reasonable question.

That's different from what you said before, specifically wondering if he's "screwing people". He can say that someone is an accident waiting to happen if they use a 40 instead of a 30. That's an opinion. It's one I don't agree with but it is one. Selling those 40s anyway is a business decision. Would it be hypocritical for someone to sell something they don't believe their customers should be using? Sure. But that doesn't make it "screwing people". JJ is entitled to his opinion, you're entitled to yours. "Screwing people" is an accusation and one which was unwarranted.