Halcyon or DSS rig?

[radinator]

Tobin has explained in many posts that one of the things he doesn't like about building donut wings is the need for a 360 degree zipper. So, it is the zipper specifically that he addressed in the Torus design, but I'm pretty sure it's still an outer shell with inner bladder accessible. The lack of zipper makes it easier to more precisely control the shape of the shell and eliminates a potential cranky zipper failure based on what I have read.

I recently asked Tobin about the lack of a zipper on his doubles donut wing, and that's exactly what he said.

Also, just last week I had my DSS singles wing pinched, creating a small hole. It took 30 seconds (+ drying time) to repair the inner bladder with aqua seal.

 

[djanni]

Couple things to point out ...

The DSS wing uses a velcro'd enclosure ... so accessing the bladder is very easy.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So what ZIPPER are you guy's talking about??? The 40lb wing bladder enclosure on the DSS rig that I used has a nice heavy zipper. Tobin promotes the Zippers he uses on that wing and larger wings on his web site.

Don

 

[louis]

where do I get aqua seal (in case I need it) and how do I use it?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So what ZIPPER are you guy's talking about??? The 40lb wing bladder enclosure on the DSS rig that I used has a nice heavy zipper. Tobin promotes the Zippers he uses on that wing and larger wings on his web site.

Don

Don ... you used a DSS 40-lb singles wing.

The wing I was referring to in the quoted text is the DSS Torus 45-lb doubles wing.

Two completely different wings ... the former being a horseshoe-shaped singles wing, and the latter being a donut-shaped doubles wing. The latter has no zipper... I can say that for sure, since I own one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gcbryan]

The DSS backplate has a very flat bend and shallow channel, which makes it an excellent choice for a singles configuration ... it'll put the cylinder closer to your body than a plate with a deeper bend angle.

Conversely, a plate with a very deep bend angle, like a FredT, is a better choice for doubles ... for much the same reason.

It's easier to show than to describe ... so since you're reasonably local, let's hook up for a dive sometime and I'll show you why it matters.

FWIW - most of the backplates you mentioned fall somewhere in between these two in terms of plate bend angle and channel depth.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, I know it's small world and all but the person who asked the question is in either Australia or Florida and may not agree that he's reasonably local

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

So what ZIPPER are you guy's talking about??? The 40lb wing bladder enclosure on the DSS rig that I used has a nice heavy zipper. Tobin promotes the Zippers he uses on that wing and larger wings on his web site.

Don

It's the 360 degree zipper around donut bladders that Tobin feels is a drawback. I don't believe he has any issue with zippers on the horseshoe wing like his LCD wings because it isn't a long zipper all the way around a circle and thus doesn't impose design drawbacks. Apologies if I am misrepresenting Tobin's views or misunderstanding what I have read in his posts.

Unlike most donut wings, the Torus secures the outer shell around the bladder without a zipper. The Torus is the only donut wing that DSS makes I believe.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, I know it's small world and all but the person who asked the question is in either Australia or Florida and may not agree that he's reasonably local

Actually, the comment was directed at Keith (dr_shappero). He lives in Ellensberg ... :browsmile

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cool_hardware52]

Sometimes I have to step away from the computer and go build some dive gear

In no particular order:

Our flatter plate with shallower center channel helps with valve access only for singles. In doubles the tanks contact the plate pretty much right down the outside edges. This is also right about where the plate contacts the divers back. In other words with doubles the tanks are seperated from the divers back by the thickness of plate. This is true pretty much independant of plate bend angle.

The Torus wing does have an out sewn ballistic outer cover and an inner RF welded urethane bladder, consistent with the balance of our wings. What differes is the use of velcro for the closure.

As others have stated, a donut wing requires 360 degree access to install the bladder. 360 zipper aren't my favorite solution. First they can be difficult to install, but more importantly they impose constraints. The 360 zippers almost always run around the inside of the wing, and they require a verticle section for installation, i.e. an oblong tube with straight walls. Why" other wise the two sides of the zipper would be different lenghts (think banked race track vs the sides of an above ground pool)

This straight sided oblong section is IMO, not waht you want right along the sides of the tanks. The velcro closure we use allows for the "race track" shape. This results in a cleaner profile.

If I missed any questions fire away.


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

It's the 360 degree zipper around donut bladders that Tobin feels is a drawback. I don't believe he has any issue with zippers on the horseshoe wing like his LCD wings because it isn't a long zipper all the way around a circle and thus doesn't impose design drawbacks. Apologies if I am misrepresenting Tobin's views or misunderstanding what I have read in his posts.

Unlike most donut wings, the Torus secures the outer shell around the bladder without a zipper. The Torus is the only donut wing that DSS makes I believe.

Your dead on Hum


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

where do I get aqua seal (in case I need it) and how do I use it?

Pretty much any dive shop. Very useful stuff, good for a wide range of repairs. It's a moisture cured urethane sealer. In pinch use "shoe goo", it's also a moisture cured urethane.

I like to buy in small tubes however, because once you open them, they harden in the tube pretty fast.



Tobin