Halcyon Infinity for a new diver?

[sprange]

Wow. I had mentioned some of my issues with points in this thread and you suddenly think they were all directed at you...and you call ME insecure. Take a deep breath please and try to follow. My criticism of not providing context was directed at the drive-by poster, not you. Oh and because of this and having to put up with your whining I'm called a censor and the attacker of women. I look forward to the next twenty paragraphs of your drivel.

Didn't say you were. Said you were attacking me (and other women) who posted.


Don't know where you said anything about this, don't care what you think about overfilled 120's, and most importantly, never responded to anything about it, not sure what you are talking about?!?


OK. And I expressed my opinion - nicely - that I thought the 30 would be a better choice. And i never once said the first word about the dive shop. So again, not sure what you talking about?!?!


My first reply to you was negative in this thread or some other thread? I don't even know what other thread you are talking about? My first reply "to you" in this thread was quite literally a question: "I am not sure what you meant that it is "not about the padding" - as I mentioned, the padding and the cinch seem to be the only difference between the Infinity and the Eclipse systems?!?!:" (and then quotes from the Halcyon website). This was in direct response to your statement that some of the answers that had been given were typical were typical of people who weren't familiar with the Infinity system. Is THAT what you are calling negative? If you took it that way, that's on you. And you said that wasn't directed at me in your next reply... we went back and forth, and eventually I even stated TO YOU "I was just wondering what you meant. I've actually tried the cinch system, I personally prefer the simplicity of the standard harness system. But I know people who do prefer the cinch, which was why I was pretty clear with my disclaimers about it being my opinion."


OK, so you disagreed with Dan's message. Whatever. I tried to provide some further context/explanation. But just because you disagreed with something didn't mean you had to get condescending and start attacking me personally, in post #39. "I swear some people like to argue for the sake of it. Kate--if you think that the small volume of fabric that may drag due to a slightly larger wing is an issue then you aren't aware of the larger weight swings (usually positive) that people experience." Up until that point I had stated my opinion - as such - and didn't call anyone out or put anyone down. You are the one who threw down the gauntlet.


YOU believe context should be provided. OK, first of all, you didn't make that clear... if you go back and look just at your posts and mine in this thread - would you really have known that if you were me? And, in all honestly, IN THIS THREAD, you weren't providing a lot of it either. So you gave your context in ANOTHER THREAD - and you are asserting that excuses the need for you to have to do so in this one. Well, I've given plenty of context in other threads - you just didn't read them. So where is the line? You're advocating for context when you haven't bothered to look at my profile. It would getting boring as hell if everyone posted context every time. "I am qualified to make this comment because..." I mean, really? If you don't know whether someone is or is not qualified, AND you think it's important, ASK THEM! instead of being passive aggressive about it and ending up with a thread that goes on for 9 pages.

If I"d known that's what this was about, I would have posted my equipment and dive history from the first post, so this could have lasted a lot less long. And you know, I considered it. But, there was another thread a few months ago where someone questioned why a household of 2 divers had 6 wings (IIRC). So posting that I have 5 wings (all but one of which are or will be in active rotation) seemed a bit - obnoxious. And regarding dive history - that would be necessary for 50% of the non-pub posts. I mean, really? I know I keep saying that, but, it's just appropriate. I mean, what are our profiles for, if not that?

At the end of the day, I just didn't know there were blanks I was supposed to fill in... I would , however, invite anyone to go back and note who was put in a position (requested) to "fill in the blanks," and who wasn't.

 

[lv2dive]

Kate--can you please point out where I was strongly objecting to much of this thread's contents. I didn't like the idea of overfilled 120s, I suggested that the 40 was an okay choice but not a -poor- one, and I defended the dive shop as I have experience with them. In a another thread (started by the OP) I suggested other options included BP/W setups in the used market. Your first reply to me was negative, and virtually every one after. What I disagreed with was the 'you're going to die if you get a 40' message that was championed by Dan. And for the record I was advocating for providing CONTEXT to posts. For example I've been in the same diving environment as the OP, and I have enough wings to get a feel for how they perform. You filled in the blanks but not until much later.

Wow. I had mentioned some of my issues with points in this thread and you suddenly think they were all directed at you...and you call ME insecure. Take a deep breath please and try to follow. My criticism of not providing context was directed at the drive-by poster, not you. Oh and because of this and having to put up with your whining I'm called a censor and the attacker of women. I look forward to the next twenty paragraphs of your drivel.

Let's look at both of your posts... in the post you said I shouldn't have taken as directed at me, the first word in the post iS MY NAME! and it's a question! and I'm not supposed to assume it's directed at me? Then you proceed to mention several things, use the word "you" several times, and wrap up by stating that I "filled in the blanks but not until much later." I don't think it's unrealistic to have taken that post to be directed at me.

Throughout this thread you've been and continue to be condescending ("take a deep breath and try to follow,"). I've stated my opinion (and even qualified it as such) and stuck to the facts vs. going on personal attacks, until here at the end when I felt like the best defense was a nominal offense. For whatever reason, you are again attacking me vs. addressing the points I made... let's just agree to disagree. We obviously don't, and never will, see eye to eye on what happened on this thread. I've never had this experience* before, and will try to stay from threads in which you are in participating in order to prevent it from reoccurring in the future.

This really is my last post on this topic, for a week at any rate. I'm on a plane to the Caymans, where I'm diving my 30 lb Evolve wing with a SS BP in some (hopefully) crystal clear waters for the next 5-6 days. And yes, I'd tell the difference from both a drag and a bubble perspective if I was diving the 40 lb wing, and no, I wouldn't be worrying about it killing me.
(tongue in cheek )





*and for heaven's sake, over a topic as innocous as 10 lbs of difference in wing size, WTH?!?!

 

[Maynerd]

You guys have completely corrupted this thread. The OP asked a simple question and a few have chosen to turn it into a brawl. I've been following this thread with great interest because I am considering an Infinity setup myself and had many of the same questions as him.

Not to bag on Dan, I think there are 3 guilty parties obfuscating any good information that might be gleaned from this thread, but... Some move to China because they have no choice. I work in fabrication and have seen many colleagues relocate to China out of necessity for work. American manufacturing is all but gone and those of us in fabrication/manufacturing are quickly becoming a rare thing, I can now count all of my American based competitors on one hand. I see our competition send American know how, engineers, and raw material to China where it is fabricated and shipped back to America for less than half of what it would cost to make it here. The bulk of the price differential comes from labor, not much we can do to compete on that front unless we expect our employees to live in poverty, I digress...

In any event one of my primary reasons for looking at H is that they are still 100% American made and I'll gladly pay a premium for the honor of owning something made here. In any event I'll likely follow the OP's lead and get the 40# wing if I order a setup but will likely go with a ss backplate. I only wish people followed up with more usable information than has been offered.

Thanks to all that tried to give useful information.

Quick edit: not trying to fly a flag in the face of those from other countries but the way a certain country does business really pi$$es me off.

 

[annlaur]

Back on the original topic (sorry for the repeat, didn't want this to be buried as I think it's an important question considering the OP's mention that he might one day dive doubles).

No, because it's a single tank wing

This is also what I read on the dive shop website : the Infinity system is sold with the ECLIPSE 30 or 40 lbs wing, marked as "single tank wing".
Is that correct ? Does that mean the OP wouldn't be able to dive doubles at all with an ECLIPSE wing ? Would he need to buy an adapter (if such a thing exists) ? A different wing such as the EVOLVE ? Or a whole new system ?

 

[Maynerd]

Back on the original topic (sorry for the repeat, didn't want this to be buried as I think it's an important question considering the OP's mention that he might one day dive doubles).

This is also what I read on the dive shop website : the Infinity system is sold with the ECLIPSE 30 or 40 lbs wing, marked as "single tank wing".
Is that correct ? Does that mean the OP wouldn't be able to dive doubles at all with an ECLIPSE wing ? Would he need to buy an adapter (if such a thing exists) ? A different wing such as the EVOLVE ? Or a whole new system ?

My understanding from talking to online dealers is that the wings are single tank only. I'm thinking that being from the north I'll likely end up in a drysuit someday so I'll get the 40# wing as a little more lift is likely better than not enough. The dealer I spoke with said that the 40# wing is ~1/2" wider all around than the 30# wing. Unfortunately, the closest dealer is >200 mi from my home so I must rely on the net for help. The LDS is adamant that a BPW is not the right choice for me and the owner says he can use any BC he wants and chooses a jacket.

 

[annlaur]

Maynerd, I am no expert by any means but this is what I understand regarding lift capacity (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

• If, for example, your actual maximum need for all the diving situations you intend to do is 20lbs of lift, there is absolutely no added benefit in buying a 40 lb wing versus a 30 lb wing.

• Now, let's say you need 25lbs of lift max with a single LP80 tank.
If diving double LP80 tanks, you will need 31lbs of lift (according to the "Ultimate" wing lift calculator).
In this case, buying a 40lb wing makes sense if you think you might dive doubles one day… provided the wing is adapted to diving doubles, which doesn't seem to be the case with the Halcyon Eclipse wing.

FYI, I'm a vacation, warm water, recreational diver and dive a pretty basic BP&W (DSS brand). Took me a good couple of hours to set it up (understand how to thread the webbing correctly and make the initial adjustments) and I really like it. To each their own, but I don't see how anyone can tell you an BP&W is not the right choice for you. Only you can make that call after trying one.

 

[FrancisK7]

The LDS is adamant that a BPW is not the right choice for me and the owner says he can use any BC he wants and chooses a jacket.

That's because they probably don't carry BP&W. My LDS said the exact same thing to me. Yet, when you speak to actual divers (who aren't biased to make a sale with you), they all say BP&W is the love of their love and they want to divorce their wives or husbands to live happily ever after with their BP&W. Even my OWD instructor said a BP&W was meant for technical diving and he didn't recommend it for recreational divers.

If I'd listened to my instructor or my LDS, I'd have paid 800$ for a BCD vest-style/Regs/1st stage/SPG kit. I would probably have been at peace with the decision until I dove and researched what I had bought and realized for more money, I could have bought something that will allow me to grow as a diver, last just as long and be more enjoyable to use.

I haven't met a single diver in RL who has used a BP&W that would ever want to go back to vest-style.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I don't think any single-tank wing can be (reasonably) used with doubles. The doubles wings I have seen (but not dived, so correct me if I am wrong, please) have a much wider center panel, in order to accommodate the two tanks.

So in the case of the wing being discussed, I believe it will be for single tank use only, and if the OP goes on to dive doubles then a different, doubles wing would need to be obtained, regardless of the amount of lift the singles wing has.

 

[Maynerd]

Maynerd, I am no expert by any means but this is what I understand regarding lift capacity (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

• If, for example, your actual maximum need for all the diving situations you intend to do is 20lbs of lift, there is absolutely no added benefit in buying a 40 lb wing versus a 30 lb wing.

• Now, let's say you need 25lbs of lift max with a single LP80 tank.
If diving double LP80 tanks, you will need 31lbs of lift (according to the "Ultimate" wing lift calculator).
In this case, buying a 40lb wing makes sense if you think you might dive doubles one day… provided the wing is adapted to diving doubles, which doesn't seem to be the case with the Halcyon Eclipse wing.

FYI, I'm a vacation, warm water, recreational diver and dive a pretty basic BP&W (DSS brand). Took me a good couple of hours to set it up (understand how to thread the webbing correctly and make the initial adjustments) and I really like it. To each their own, but I don't see how anyone can tell you an BP&W is not the right choice for you. Only you can make that call after trying one.

Thanks annlaur...

Any flaws in my thinking, see below

So the disadvantage of a 30 vs 40 wing would be...

- added drag, (maybe along the lines of swimmers and bicyclists shaving body hair to minimize resistance, okay I realize that may be an extreme example but I really can't see 1/2 all around making that much difference but I have been wrong before)

- Too much lift and could be dangerous in a stuck inflator situation. Never thought of this until I read this thread, it certainly wasn't mentioned in my OW or AOW classes. But is something to think about and be prepared for. I tend to a 30 or 40 would be equally dangerous in this situation, again I don't have any experience or knowledge to back this up.

- Tacoing, I must be slow because I had to think about this one for a minute to understand what people meant by it. Again if the wing is only 1/2" wider on each side the difference would be minimal and would likely be a non issue.

I wouldn't be too upset if I never dove cold water but being from the north I get the distinct feeling if I want to dive often I won't have a choice.

I am clearly leaning toward the 40 as I would benefit by having the extra lift in the likely event I started diving cold and even if I didn't I have the extra capacity on reserve if needed, e.g. heavy camera gear, buddy that can't inflate bc ...

I'm thinking I'll get the weighted STA as it doesn't look like it can be purchased individually and a quick search shows that people jump on them when they are offered up for sale so I'm sure I'll be able to break even on it if I end up not using it. The only thing that bothers me is that the channel design looks to be different between the two but I believe I could easily throw a piece of 10 ga ss on the waterjet table and form a suitable replacement up if truly needed.

In the end I'm thinking I'll end up using trim weight pockets, being they are easily purchased I'll pass on them until I get more comfortable with the rig.

 

[annlaur]

I personally don't see any flaw in your thinking.
Then again, I'm not expert by any means, and haven't dove with a big wing (mine is a 24lb, I don't do cold water), so couldn't tell you how noticeable the change in drag/trim is.