Actually, they DO have a 2" crotch strap. Everyone and the brother has a 2" crotch strap now...
Halcyon files for "DIR" Registered Trademark
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Actually, they DO have a 2" crotch strap. Everyone and the brother has a 2" crotch strap now...
OP
chrpai
Contributor
So if everyone is so sure JJ and instructors dont care what brand your DIR gear is, why have Halcyon register the trademark instead of GUE?
JohnCollins
Guest
JJ isn't "patenting" DIR, like you would an invention--Halcyon has filed for trademark protection. A trademark is simply a recognized word or phrase that people begin to readily associate with a particular product or service. Bounty towels are know as "the quicker picker upper" in their adds. They've likely filed for trademark protection which means Scott towels can't use the phrase "quicker picker upper" in their advertising.
Frankly, it's a smart business move on Halcyon's part to do this because DIR is becoming well-recognized among folks who are likely to be their customers. If you understand what this all about, you'd realize that Dive Rite could have done this earlier--they just didn't think of it. Had they filed for trademark protection, they would have gotten it, or they might have been challenged, perhaps, by GUE who had been using it for some time, and they may have made a case that the trademark shouldn't be granted to Dive Rite. Then GUE would have had to file a trademark, though and that would have effectively precluded Halcyon from ever using it.
Now, it's pretty clear that GUE will certify divers who take their course using any backplate or any wing or any dive light or . . . you get the picture, as long as it fits the standards. GUE is not trying to jam Halcyon down anyone's throat. Halcyon is just making a smart business move to further associate their products with a recognized phrase.
GCMedic, you're entitled to make any decision you like on how you feel. This is an open forum, so you're also entitled to say anything you like here that isn't inflammatory or insulting. But if I may make an observation--and my intent isn't to flame you, just to save you from yourself--you should just quit this particular thread. It's fine to say you made a decision based on how you feel, but then there's nothing more to be said. You continue to discuss facts, circumstances and theories when you're trying to use logic, but once you've decided to go on feeling, there's nothing more to say. It's OK, it just looks kind of silly to keep trying to defend "feeling" against those using more logical forms of argument, and it simply isn't necessary.
And your misunderstanding of the differences between patent and trademark and the analogy of GUE and Halcyon to the Sopranos makes you look kind of, um. . .let's use the word uninformed. I'm trying to be helpful, really, not tweak your nose. You're probably a very nice guy who is lots of fun to be around. And you're certainly entitled to your opinions and can express them here.
Don't get upset with people, though, if you keep trying to defend your feelings like they are the equivalent to an argument (argument in the logical discussion sense, not the fight sense), because feelings just aren't. And don't get upset if folks try to use logical arguments to refute some of your points. It doesn't mean we don't like you! Arguments should be enlightening to all invovled.
Every man is entitled to his own opinion. No man is entitled to his own facts. Forget who said that, but I like it
.
Frankly, it's a smart business move on Halcyon's part to do this because DIR is becoming well-recognized among folks who are likely to be their customers. If you understand what this all about, you'd realize that Dive Rite could have done this earlier--they just didn't think of it. Had they filed for trademark protection, they would have gotten it, or they might have been challenged, perhaps, by GUE who had been using it for some time, and they may have made a case that the trademark shouldn't be granted to Dive Rite. Then GUE would have had to file a trademark, though and that would have effectively precluded Halcyon from ever using it.
Now, it's pretty clear that GUE will certify divers who take their course using any backplate or any wing or any dive light or . . . you get the picture, as long as it fits the standards. GUE is not trying to jam Halcyon down anyone's throat. Halcyon is just making a smart business move to further associate their products with a recognized phrase.
GCMedic, you're entitled to make any decision you like on how you feel. This is an open forum, so you're also entitled to say anything you like here that isn't inflammatory or insulting. But if I may make an observation--and my intent isn't to flame you, just to save you from yourself--you should just quit this particular thread. It's fine to say you made a decision based on how you feel, but then there's nothing more to be said. You continue to discuss facts, circumstances and theories when you're trying to use logic, but once you've decided to go on feeling, there's nothing more to say. It's OK, it just looks kind of silly to keep trying to defend "feeling" against those using more logical forms of argument, and it simply isn't necessary.
And your misunderstanding of the differences between patent and trademark and the analogy of GUE and Halcyon to the Sopranos makes you look kind of, um. . .let's use the word uninformed. I'm trying to be helpful, really, not tweak your nose. You're probably a very nice guy who is lots of fun to be around. And you're certainly entitled to your opinions and can express them here.
Don't get upset with people, though, if you keep trying to defend your feelings like they are the equivalent to an argument (argument in the logical discussion sense, not the fight sense), because feelings just aren't. And don't get upset if folks try to use logical arguments to refute some of your points. It doesn't mean we don't like you! Arguments should be enlightening to all invovled.
Every man is entitled to his own opinion. No man is entitled to his own facts. Forget who said that, but I like it
.JohnCollins
Guest
Halcyon is trademarking DIR for the same reason Bounty trademarked "quicker picker upper". IT'S A MARKETING THING, PEOPLE, AND A SMART ONE.
How do you folks all afford to scuba dive? Aren't any of you in business????
This is not sinister stuff. It's good marketing for Halcyon. I bet the folks at Dive Rite are slapping their foreheads right now saying, "Wow, why didn't we think of that first?"
This is kinda funny. Or kinda sad. I don't know which.
How do you folks all afford to scuba dive? Aren't any of you in business????
This is not sinister stuff. It's good marketing for Halcyon. I bet the folks at Dive Rite are slapping their foreheads right now saying, "Wow, why didn't we think of that first?"
This is kinda funny. Or kinda sad. I don't know which.
Huh? Actually if you're worried about GUE pushing equipment, I would have been more worried about GUE going after the term.
JohnCollins makes a good point about trademarked phrases.
Only Pepsi drinkers who get their knickers in a twist over Coke's insinuation that they're drinking some imaginary thing (versus the real thing) can fret about the phrase "DIR."
Face it, you live in a world awash in catch phrases, this is just another one. To whine over this one and ignore the rest shows that it's just an excuse to bash.
Only United flies friendly skies.
Anything but Coke is imaginary.
Only Ford is built tough.
Noting but Bounty can pick things up quickly.
If you don't dive Scubapro, you're not a pro.
Unless you dive Dive Rite, you dive wrong.
I know you're all desperate for what appears to be a logical reason to avoid taking the DIRF, but trust me, just grit your teeth, take the class and then come back an informed consumer and tell us what you thought of it, good or bad.
Roak
something that is not specific to your (whatever you're selling)
GUE and JJ, in their videos and in their materials, have made it clear that DIR does NOT refer to a specific brand of hardware.
You can lose trademark protection VERY easily. It would appear to this non-lawyer that JJ already has through his own statements.
Some company - like OMS, for instance, that has a bit of money - probably more than JJ - just might decide to wait until that trademark issues and then intentionally infringe it for the express purpose of presenting JJ's own words disclaiming ownership of the term on his own videos and in his own books!
Once you lose a trademark you can't get it back!
Just ask Bayer about "aspirin"!
What this little game does prove, however, is that JJ and the Halcyon/GUE crowd are not, indeed, about "a better way to dive, independant of the gear used." Oh no, that's not it at all, and never was.
It was (and is) purely a marketing gimmick.
Thanks for the admission JJ.
GUE and JJ, in their videos and in their materials, have made it clear that DIR does NOT refer to a specific brand of hardware.
You can lose trademark protection VERY easily. It would appear to this non-lawyer that JJ already has through his own statements.
Some company - like OMS, for instance, that has a bit of money - probably more than JJ - just might decide to wait until that trademark issues and then intentionally infringe it for the express purpose of presenting JJ's own words disclaiming ownership of the term on his own videos and in his own books!
Once you lose a trademark you can't get it back!
Just ask Bayer about "aspirin"!
What this little game does prove, however, is that JJ and the Halcyon/GUE crowd are not, indeed, about "a better way to dive, independant of the gear used." Oh no, that's not it at all, and never was.
It was (and is) purely a marketing gimmick.
Thanks for the admission JJ.
If DIR is about the system and the skills, *not* the gear, then shouldn't have GUE gone for the trademark?
I'm sure there are good reasons for doing it the way they are but it does seem a little odd.
It is good that DIR is a total *system* approach to diving but for now at least I am still diving GTJD, (Get The Job Done).
I'm sure there are good reasons for doing it the way they are but it does seem a little odd.
It is good that DIR is a total *system* approach to diving but for now at least I am still diving GTJD, (Get The Job Done).
That would be a nice change of pace, versus the weekly and sometime almost daily "The World -v- DIR" that we get in in this notes file, which is *exactly* what the base note of this thread is all about, slinging mud at DIR.
"If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshoot."
Just go off and read the DIRF reviews. Can that many divers, some of them that have been diving for years and having a large amount of experience, be all wrong?
Hmmmm. Maybe there is something to this DIR thing after all, since experienced divers have written that they've had their eyes opened! Maybe instead of expending all my energy fighting DIR tooth and nail, slinging snide coolaid remarks arond, I should just shut up and try it! Maybe I could actually LEARN something and even if I don't end up subscribing to the whole DIR philosophy, I could improve my diving! Maybe they're some divers out there that actually know more than me and could teach me something!
In the words of Steve Martin: Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...
Roak
sharpenu
Contributor
Thousands of businessmen felt that slavery was the way to go. Was it right?
Millions of Germans blamed Jews for the state of German affairs.
Was it right?
Just because someone else feels that his way is right for him, does not mean it is right for them. Let's not bow down to the "SCUBA :censor: "---"No dives for you, one year!!"
If you want to argue that it is safer, fine. If you want to argue it is more efficient, fine. But the arguement that a diving system is better because "others" feel it is, I dont buy it. I would rather think for myself, thank you. My days of blindly following others and being treated like a boot camp recruit ended with my military discharge.
Why didnt GUE trademark "DIR"? If JJ wanted to control misuse of his system, that would have sufficed. Instead, he uses the guise of "superior training" to hawk his wares like some late night infomercial.
You people are crazy.
Halcyon is in business to make money.. AFAIK, GUE is not. Halcyon bills itself as "DIR Dive Systems." Halcyon is protecting its best interests by finally trademarking the term they have slapped ALL OVER their website.
Besides the fact that I don't think their trademark would hold up in court if the crap hit the fan, GUE is extremely clear on the fact that you don't need Halcyon to be DIR... and as far as I can tell, GUE has had DIR since before Halcyon (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong).
You're not suddenly going to see GUE's DIR classes requiring Halcyon gear. It's simply not going to happen. Business will go about as usual, with Halcyon saying they make DIR gear and GUE saying they teach DIR classes.
People look for *anything* to attack GUE or Halcyon (or George or JJ or the WKPP or...) with.
As for that DIR vs The World forum, *every* forum on SB is the "attack DIR wherever it's mentioned" forum for a lot of people.
Halcyon is in business to make money.. AFAIK, GUE is not. Halcyon bills itself as "DIR Dive Systems." Halcyon is protecting its best interests by finally trademarking the term they have slapped ALL OVER their website.
Besides the fact that I don't think their trademark would hold up in court if the crap hit the fan, GUE is extremely clear on the fact that you don't need Halcyon to be DIR... and as far as I can tell, GUE has had DIR since before Halcyon (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong).
You're not suddenly going to see GUE's DIR classes requiring Halcyon gear. It's simply not going to happen. Business will go about as usual, with Halcyon saying they make DIR gear and GUE saying they teach DIR classes.
People look for *anything* to attack GUE or Halcyon (or George or JJ or the WKPP or...) with.
As for that DIR vs The World forum, *every* forum on SB is the "attack DIR wherever it's mentioned" forum for a lot of people.
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