Halcyon 30 Eclipse MC system vs. DSS Rig for Single tank

[idratherbedivin]

I am looking into buying my first set of gear and have decided to go with the bp/w. I am going to be diving primarily singles for a long time but am looking for something that I can upgrade to doubles later without needing an entirely new set of gear. I have narrowed it down to these two set ups but am still open for suggestions. The halcyon is pretty expensive but if it is really a great rig then I would be up for paying the extra money. If the Deep sea supply rig will work just as well then I don't want to go wasting my money. Also, is one or the other easier to swap out a singles wing for a doubles wing? I don't think I am going to go with the hogarthian harness because I really have never heard of those clips failing and I am not doing extreme enough diving yet for that to be a factor. Any opinions?

-Aaron

 

[terrasmak]

both are great sets or gear, i have no experiance with the DSS harness , but do recomend the hog harness , its actually more comfy than you think

 

[Mo2vation]

I dive Halcyon.

I love the SAA stuff, however. If I had to do it all again, I would select DSS for the following reasons:

1) SoCal Company. Local to me.

2) I LOVE the design. I love the fact the DSS stuff comes completely apart in seconds. No wing nuts, no threading the tank bands throuogh the plate, no STA. Its an outstanding design. It stores smaller, it travels smaller, you can switch wings easier and the rig stays cleaner (read: lasts longer) because there is no place for grime to hide. When its soak time, it gets thoroughly soaked. Love the design.

3) Very low profile wing. Very tough. Much tougher fabric than my Halcyon Poineer.

4) All wings have replacable bladders. My Pioneer currently does not (the eclipse you're considering does.)

I could go on. I'm not a DSS apologist - I don't even own their rig. But I have seen enough of it to love the design and features of it, and dived with enough diver who use it to know its tough and comfortable. If their stuff is cheaper for you, to me its a no brainer.

---
Ken

 

[idratherbedivin]

Hmm. Thank you for the responses. I forgot to think about where the companies are located. I live in maryland and hopefully will be going to college in florida; however, I am thinking about going to school in san diego. I am only a junior in high school right now, so the halcyon is much closer to me and i could probably try it on before buying. Now i have a new decision. Do I wait until I get in to college to buy gear. If I do that I will know what I can get serviced and what will be harder to service but that is a long way away. I will be working all summer to afford my first set of gear that I was going to get at the end of the summer before I go to bonaire. So, one more question, what kind of servicing do you need to do on bcds and is it really necessary other then for trying on to have a shop near you that sells your brand of bp/w?

 

[alo100]

both are great sets or gear, i have no experiance with the DSS harness , but do recomend the hog harness , its actually more comfy than you think

I know that is a bit off, but I am also sharing the same view as WhitmanDive. Just a question in my mind about the one piece harness, not trying to challenge the DIR, hope someone can tell. So in physics, if you cut a rope and tied them back again into one, of course you will have a point of weakness at the knot; however if it is not a knot, but a well built junction like those harness being used in mountaineering e.g. http://www.midwestmtn.com/products.php?sub_catID=36

these are tested items, good enough to carry a person's weight + strong enough to hold the person in case he/she falls from a cliff. Or something like Zeagle 911, you can be lift up with that thing:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=66415

I mean, if the design is a correctly calculated design, well build, and tested.
I mean one piece is good, but it is not the only "safe harness" right?

Again this is only a question + my point of view, not a challenge.

 

[MSilvia]

I mean, if the design is a correctly calculated design, well build, and tested.
I mean one piece is good, but it is not the only "safe harness" right?

No, a one-piece Hogarthian harness is not the only safe harness. However, it is the surest fit, simplest to configure, and easiest/cheapest to replace if it ever becomes necessary. Since (in my experience) it isn't noticably more comfortable than the more elaborate harnesses, what's the advantage of going with something else?

There are more advantages to it than just avoiding the chance of a QR failure. Ask yourself what if anything are you gaining by spending more on a "manufactured" harness.

 

[*Floater*]

I am looking into buying my first set of gear and have decided to go with the bp/w. I am going to be diving primarily singles for a long time but am looking for something that I can upgrade to doubles later without needing an entirely new set of gear. I have narrowed it down to these two set ups but am still open for suggestions. The halcyon is pretty expensive but if it is really a great rig then I would be up for paying the extra money. If the Deep sea supply rig will work just as well then I don't want to go wasting my money. Also, is one or the other easier to swap out a singles wing for a doubles wing? I don't think I am going to go with the hogarthian harness because I really have never heard of those clips failing and I am not doing extreme enough diving yet for that to be a factor. Any opinions?

-Aaron

I have the DSS single rig, and have seen many halcyon rigs close up, but haven't used them.

1. Service is not an issue unless the inner bladder breaks. For DSS you can patch it up in minutes like a blown bike tire, or replace completely relatively cheaply. The halcyon inner bladder (and outer) are built to WKPP specifications and are supposed to therefore be very rugged. The inner bladder can also be repaired fairly easily using aquaseal, but I'm not sure if you could patch it the way you'd repair a bike tire. Perhaps others can weigh in.

edit: the power inflator might also need service, but my understanding is that you just buy or order a new one if the old one fails. i guess you can also take them apart yourself and do some maintenance on them if you have a special tool for it and know what to do.

2. DSS plate is great. It has more holes to place the wing, you can add Tobin's weight plates to it, it has slots for independent doubles and so forth - all feature the halcyon plates don't have. It's the best overall plate in the market today imo.

3. The LCD30 wing is a horseshoe, eclipse is a donut. This was a concern for me at first, but now that I use mostly doubles for any demanding diving I don't really care, and prefer built-in 'STA', easy repair, narrow profile, etc. convenience of the LCD over the eclipse. However, I do prefer donuts for my doubles, and I do think that they make shifting gas and using the rear dump easier, at least for doubles. Ideally my LCD30 would be exactly as it is now except a donut. Eclipse requires an STA which adds some cost but is not a big deal otherwise and some people prefer them. You can also use an STA with the DSS plate though, but why would you if you have the LCD wing that doesn't require one?

4. Switching to doubles is same with both. However, switching between doubles and singles on repetitive dives is easier and faster with standard STA's than with the DSS built-in solution, but as I said you can use an STA with the DSS too if this is a concern.

 

[Mike Newman]

I am looking into buying my first set of gear and have decided to go with the bp/w. I am going to be diving primarily singles for a long time but am looking for something that I can upgrade to doubles later without needing an entirely new set of gear. I have narrowed it down to these two set ups but am still open for suggestions. The halcyon is pretty expensive but if it is really a great rig then I would be up for paying the extra money. If the Deep sea supply rig will work just as well then I don't want to go wasting my money. Also, is one or the other easier to swap out a singles wing for a doubles wing? I don't think I am going to go with the hogarthian harness because I really have never heard of those clips failing and I am not doing extreme enough diving yet for that to be a factor. Any opinions?

-Aaron

Aaron - if you can try both Plates out, choose the one that feels most comfortable to you. I have the Halcyon and it's faultless. On the hogarthian thing - go with the harness - you will eventually anyway. It just makes more sense.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Also, is one or the other easier to swap out a singles wing for a doubles wing? I don't think I am going to go with the hogarthian harness because I really have never heard of those clips failing and I am not doing extreme enough diving yet for that to be a factor. Any opinions?

-Aaron

Hi Aaron,

There are many very good BP&W's currently available, not alot available today that you might regret. There are certain combinations that might not be ideal, but in large part you have a wide range of choices.

I'm pleased you are considering DSS. I know it's hard to picture exactly how some of this gear works, assembles, converts etc.

If you have a DSS backplate set up for singles with a DSS wing, it takes a few minutes to convert it over to be able to accept doubles, and a few minutes to convert it back again. I can do it in 2-3 minutes depending on how motivated I might be.

It is no doubt faster to convert from singles to doubles if you are using a bolt on STA.

In my experience very few divers will dive both singles and doubles on any given day or dive trip. I'm sure it happens, but I just don't see it with any regularity. This is for a couple reasons.

Doubles requires a different wing, different tanks, and often a different set of regulators. You may need to adjust weighting also. Having all the goodies to do both singles and doubles is a burden on most trips.

The second reason is diving doubles is a different experience from diving singles. In my opinion doubles are more stable, and I prefer them, in addition to the other benefits of redundancy and a greater volume of gas. What I've found is many people who start diving doubles do so exclusively, or at least when ever possible.

I'm sure there are instructors etc. who dive both singles and doubles and swap routinely, but many of these "dive pros" end up with at least two rigs.

The DSS singles rig offers easy assembly, and quick and simple teardown. No loose parts and is compact for travel.

Unless you have specific need to adjust your harness frequently, such as frequent changes in Exposure suit type or thickness, I'd recommend a "hogarthian" style harness.

The single piece harnesses are more work to set up initially, and can be stuborn to readjust, but properly set up are relatively easy to use, and comfortable.


Regards,


Tobin

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

I don't think the location of the manufacturer should be a consideration to you. As others have said, these rigs are basically maintenance-free.

I agree that the DSS is an outstanding piece of gear. Halcyon is more expensive because of the name. The DSS system is more innovative and convenient in many ways, and the DSS plate is really the only standout plate out there...the others are all pretty much standard. Get the DSS single tank rig. You'll love it.

Cheers