Guide to Mares regulators from 2000-2020

[Demetris]

Hello!!
i am almost ready buying a new Mares 22 reg however i found two different sets in the market. Mares Abyss 22 Navy II and Mares Abyss 22X. The truth is that they look like the "Abyss Navy (II): Produced from @ 2011 to present (2020)" and the "Abyss 08: Produced from @ 2008-2018" mentioned above. Am i correct? And from what i understand only the Navy II is certified for cold water. Correct?

Demetris

 

[Zef]

Hello!!
i am almost ready buying a new Mares 22 reg however i found two different sets in the market. Mares Abyss 22 Navy II and Mares Abyss 22X. The truth is that they look like the "Abyss Navy (II): Produced from @ 2011 to present (2020)" and the "Abyss 08: Produced from @ 2008-2018" mentioned above. Am i correct? And from what i understand only the Navy II is certified for cold water. Correct?

Demetris

You are mostly correct.

The Abyss 22 Navy (II) is certified by the US Navy to pass their standards for use which includes extremely cold water temperature use.

The standard version, currently the Abyss MR 22X, is generally fine for use in cold water and per Mares' product guide is CE certified/approved for cold water use defined as less than 10 degrees celsius (50 degrees farenheight).

The primary differences are as follows:

MR 22 Navy (II) First stage:
1. High pressure poppet is the older tri-material design - Mares has to use this older part to keep the Navy's certification rating even though the current high pressure poppet in use in their X series first stages is the ACT poppet.
2. comes with Mares' oil filled CWD (cold water dive system) kit installed

Abyss Navy (II) Second Stage:
1. Black faceplate
2. Teflon coating on interior of the 2nd stage body and some bit piece parts to prevent the formation of ice crystals under very extreme conditions.

MR 22X First stage:
1. Current model ACT poppet.
2. No dry kit but you have the option to install the oil filled CWD or the dry CWD if you feel you need one.

Abyss Second Stage:
1. Silver faceplate
2. No teflon coating on interior or bit piece parts.
3. There was an update to the demand lever a bunch of years ago that they could not use on the Navy certified 2nd stage as it would cause Mares to lose the Navy's certification.

The questions to ask yourself are:
Do you really need a 1st stage with a cold water kit installed?
and
Do you want the hassle of an oil filled cold water kit? The oil filled kit will add to the cost of service.

The tri-material poppet can be replaced with the ACT poppet when the 1st stage is serviced.

I dive with a pair of Mr 22 Abyss Turbos from 2000-2004, no cold water kit, and they have performed flawlessly in water temps down to between 2-3 degrees Celsius.

The Navy certification just means that the Navy version of the reg set passed some super rigorous testing where the regulator continued to function in extended extreme conditions even when it iced over. The reality is that most recreational divers will not come close to the criteria that the reg set was tested for, and if you were doing that kind of diving or planned to, you would not be asking about it.

Here is link to the report from the testing that was done by the Navy: https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a561760.pdf

It should be noted that production of the non-Navy MR22 Abyss reg set was discontinued by Mares in 2018, but is still supported for parts/service. The Navy version is still produced because Mares does not have another reg set in their line-up that has officially been tested to meet the US Navy's criteria.

-Z

 

[Demetris]

Thanks!!! From your experience for how long after the product has been discontinued Mares supports the regs? As you mentioned above, your reg is almost 20 years old.

 

[Zef]

Thanks!!! From your experience for how long after the product has been discontinued Mares supports the regs? As you mentioned above, your reg is almost 20 years old.

It is hard to say, especially with a company that has roots in Italy where design decisions are sometime based on form rather than function. Given the success of the MR22 and Abyss stages it seemed odd to me that Mares discontinued them. It would seem that tech diving has become increasingly popular and tech training has become more and more considered a part of the mainstream dive training continuum (a whole separate discussion in and of itself), Mares seems to have given the Abyss 2nd stage a slight facelift and now market it as the DR 2nd stage under their Extreme Range (XR) line of products which they intend to appeal to the tech diver market segment. From what I can tell the major differences between the first stages is the form and finish coupled with different number of high and low pressure ports which is useful for hose routing considerations for different configurations (e.g., primary donate, streamlined setup, doubles, sidemount, stage, etc.), but the internals are relatively the same as has been used for all their MR regulators with exception of the MR42 1st stage which used some smaller scale parts due to its size.

Right now, many of the critical internal parts of the Mares lineup are the same as that used in the Abyss and MR22. The high pressure seat and poppet design of their current models, for example, is relatively the same that they have been using for quite a number of years. Given that they have recently released new products that use the same internal parts as older designs. I would wager, as others have state previously in this discussion thread, that parts for the Abyss and MR22 will remain available for quite a few years. Those parts that are not routinely changed at service intervals, such as the metal ring that holds the faceplate on the 2nd stage, should continue to be available as long as the Abyss Navy (II) is being made/marketed.

The Abyss MR22 regulator in any of its verisions (except the Ruby) are great work-horse regulators that should provide years of trouble free service and are easy to maintain. The biggest detractor to self-service of Mares regulators in not complexity but availability of service kits/parts to the diving public. But like, Aqualung, and ScubaPro, Mares is fairly well recognized in the diving industry around the world, so service and parts should not be too hard to find no matter where you decide to dive.

I don't think you will be disappointed with either regulator set you are evaluating for purchase.

I have already stated my recommendation to avoid the hassle of the oil filled cold water kit unless you plan to routinely dive in waters less than 5 degrees Celsius for prolonged periods of time....

...kind of off topic but I often find during the winter that the air temp is colder than the water temp which means their is greater potential for issues before entering the water than there is once in the water. I reduce the chance of problems in the water in cold water (less than 10C) by using 2 first stages and routing my primary 2nd stage and wing inflator to one, while routing my octo and drysuit inflator to the other. Additionally I dive with a slung pony bottle all year round with its own first and second stage....my mentality is that if a a problem develops, particularly in cold water, it is time to end the dive. The chances of all 3 first stages or all 3 second stages crapping out on the same dive are fairly remote, but that remote chance is why my protocol dictates that I would head to my safety stop/surface/exit point should a problem develop particularly in cold water.

 

[lowwall]

Thanks!!! From your experience for how long after the product has been discontinued Mares supports the regs? As you mentioned above, your reg is almost 20 years old.

I'll second Zef's post. Service parts for the Abyss second stage and 22 first stage should be around as long as Mares is. Not only are the regs still in the lineup in the form of the Abyss Navy II and DR XR second, but some of their latest models use the same key service parts.

Even if Mares somehow disappears, the most commonly replaced parts like O-rings and poppets are available from third parties (although aftermarket poppets may have a shorter service life). Even less common parts should be available as new old stock for a long time given that these have been used around the world for nearly 25 years.

 

[lowwall]

... 2009 dealer service manual

https://www.divestock.com/downloads/dl/file/id/140/list_mares_2009.pdf

-Z

Adding the 2001 service manual

 

[Catito]

Part 1

This guide is meant to help answer common questions about Mares regs of this century and to assist those interested in purchasing or resurrecting non-current regs.

A couple of notes. The following older regs that were still available in 2000 but were being phased out are not included: the MR10 and R1 first stages and the III, Navy and Beta second stages. Also, dates given are from Mares catalogs and manuals and in a couple of cases responses on the forum by Mares reps or service techs. These never exactly match dealer availability, in particular items were usually available in the shops for a couple of years after they disappeared from catalogs as existing stocks were sold out.

NAMING
First stage names are a number (2, 12, 15, 16, 32, 42, 52, 72, 82) and may have one or more letters as a prefix or suffix. The second stage names are normally a single word, e.g. "Abyss" and "Fusion", sometimes a suffix is added to indicate a special feature.

Note that Mares sells its regs as a packaged first and second. Their standard practice for package names is the second stage name followed by the first stage name, e.g. the "Carbon 52X". However, in the past they have sometimes used only the second stage names for the entire package. They have even marked the first stage with the name of its second stage on occasion.

The exception to package naming is for sales of standalone octopus second stages. Logically enough, these are called "Octopus" followed by the normal second stage name, e.g. "Octopus Rover".

FIRST STAGES

HP sealing systems
Mares' original balanced diaphragm first stage, the MR12, used a T-shaped poppet with a plastic laminate surface that pressed against a seat machined into the stage body to provide the seal between the high and intermediate pressure sections of the reg. This was typical practice of the time - in fact the original Mares poppet was interchangeable with the one used in Conshelf, Titan and other first stage - but could result in sealing issues causing air leaks from the second stage if either the poppet surface or seat were less than pristine. Poppets were dealt with by specifying replacement at 100 dives or 1 year. But rough or damaged seats required a new reg or expensive metal work by a specialist technician. Note that Mares wasn't the only company with this issue, a few techs in cave country apparently made a decent living treating HP seats from all the main manufacturers.

Mares spent several years working on improved sealing designs. The first step was to fit the MR12 with a replaceable seat. All of their balanced diaphragm first stage produced since then have replaceable seats. The next major effort was modifying the flat face of the poppet into a design that appears to have been inspired by a toilet plunger. The new poppet mated with a seat with a matching indent and the whole thing was called the Spherical Core Seal or SCS. In the end, SCS proved to be no better than the earlier design and was eventually dropped. Meanwhile, Mares engineers had been working on improved versions of the T poppet seal, culminating in the Tri-Material (brass, soft polyurethane, and high modulus polyurethane) design which first appeared in 2006. The Tri-Material poppets were a major advance, doubling the standard replacement schedule to 2 years - although still requiring 1 year inspections - and greatly decreasing the need for premature replacements. The Tri-Material poppets are still used in the 22 Navy and as replacement parts for the MR42. In 2015, Mares introduced the Advanced Coating Technology (“ACT”) poppets. These have a further improved sealing surface that have allowed Mares to switch to a two year inspection interval.

Here’s an old Mares video showing the the SCS and “classic” seals:
]

The good news is that, with two exceptions which are covered below, all Mares balanced diaphragm first stages can be upgraded to the current ACT system simply by swapping the poppet and possibly the seat (and minor accompanying parts such as the poppet pin and O-rings). Furthermore, they all use the same upgraded poppets and seats so there is no danger of an older reg being forced out of service by lack of parts availability.

Prefixes
MR - standard prefix for early balanced diaphragm first stages.
R - indicates piston first stage.
V - indicates SCS.
MR (again) - as SCS was abandoned, the prefix was changed to MR regardless of whether there was a previous MR version.
[no prefix] - the MR and R prefixes were dropped in 2015, at least in the catalogs. However I have seen a reg marked MR22X.

Suffixes
CWD - indicates factory installed cold water kit.
T - indicates uses tri-material poppet, the T suffix began appearing in 2008 to eliminate questions about whether the reg had the new style poppet.
S - ? May indicate “Short”. It only appears on the final version of the 12S and the current piston 2S.
X - indicates ACT poppet, first appeared in 2015 with the 52X and 15x

Hi:

You have a lot of knowledge re Mares regulators...why did mine fail today (between dives) with air rushing out of this side hole?

 

[Zef]

Hi:

You have a lot of knowledge re Mares regulators...why did mine fail today (between dives) with air rushing out of this side hole?
View attachment 604588

Without personally seeing/handling/inspecting your regulator it is not possible to know exactly what failed in your 1st stage....but if air is coming out of where you indicate, then it could be that the diaphragm of your 1st stage is compromised. That could happen as it is possible for this part to fail due to age/use, it could happen due to improper assembly or adjustment, it could happen perhaps due to a failure of an internal o-ring on the high-pressure side of the 1st stage.

-Z

 

[Catito]

Without personally seeing/handling/inspecting your regulator it is not possible to know exactly what failed in your 1st stage....but if air is coming out of where you indicate, then it could be that the diaphragm of your 1st stage is compromised. That could happen as it is possible for this part to fail due to age/use, it could happen due to improper assembly or adjustment, it could happen perhaps due to a failure of an internal o-ring on the high-pressure side of the 1st stage.

-Z

Thank you very much. Sending it back for repairs.

 

[scubapeter]

Unless I missed it, under the budget/rental category I believe the Rebel 2nd stage falls between the Nikos and the Rover.