guide/buddy deco dilemma

[JahJahwarrior]

I often have a little deco on recreational style dives, which is not a problem. But running out of air to complete the deco is another story, that's the kind of thing that should lead to no further dives for that diver until they've had a good long chat with the dm and captain.

I've only had two OOA experiences with buddies who both suffered equipment failures. I still dive with them, the OOA was not their fault. Another guy I dove with surfaced with gas, but significantly blew our planned gas usage and did not turn the dive when he exceeded the limits we had set. I will never enter the water with him again.

 

[jongles]

Agreed devondiver lessons learnt should be shared. I'm putting it together just need to add on what happened post dive.

 

[DogDiver]

Jongles, very interesting dive report. As 99% of my dives are mixed gas staged decompression dives, going 10 minutes into deco is just a side note in my log entry. I use a Uwatec Tec2G computer with a Citizen dive watch as my primary bottom timer. I have my computer set at mid-conservative setting. It also has the feature of a "profile dependent intermediate" stop. When I dive at CoCo View in Roatan last March, even on 32% Nitrox recreational dives, it would put me in my deep stop mode on the 3rd or 4th dives of the day. Once toward the end of the week it put me in Deco on the fourth dive that day. Your perception of other divers over staying the NDC limits might be just that. Every computer has it's own tissue compartments that it monitors. Me, I'm used to diving solo on recreational dives in warm salt water. When at depths below 65 feet I usually dive with a steel LP 95 with an "H" valve pressurized to 3600 psi. Self sufficiency, and the ability to know my limits keep me safer. I find myself with the attitude of when I'm by myself, I don't have anyone else to look after, or baby sit. In 48 years of diving I have never run out of air. I've been real low a few times, but never out. Any OOA incidents have occurred with other divers in the group I was diving with..... Oh Well.....just my opinion

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You should not have causually allowed yourself to fall over into the deco category.

You now know how to read your computer. Good.

FYI: you need to stop using the term "safety stop" when you actually mean "deco stop". Violating one is generally viewed as trivial and violating the other is "sinful" within the jargon of scuba diving.

Lastly, you should have had the good sense to tell the boat operator (upon surfacing) that they may want to send a snorkeler down and check on the decompressing "clowns". In some situations, you might save a life. The DM got screwed by the two divers and risked his butt to try to help them.

If I were in that situation, i would have tried to look at the other people's computers and air supply and if it looked "short" then I would have most likely removed my scuba unit, handed it to the the DM, made a free ascent from 20 feet and then when I showed up on the surface with no tank, the dive boat operator would probably get the message that things were getting serious underwater. Not that this is something a new diver should do..

 

[billt4sf]

I never do deco dives, I am a very simple recreational diver.

I think I will go read my Suunto manual to make sure I know what the numbers will mean if somehow I get into a deco obligation.

Thanks for the post. I liked your response, DevonDiver!

- Bill

 

[Steve_C]

Had a computer fail on a trip so I bought a new one. Very next day had a guide lead a double dip on the Speigel Grove with a short SI. As soon as we got out of a swim through I pointed to my computer and left her and swam to the anchor line to head up. Was into mild deco by the time I reached the line. Fortunately I had read the manual the night before after buying it so I understood what it was saying. Had it cleared by the time I surfaced.

It does not matter if you do deco or not. As you found out stuff happens. I don't normally do deco but given a choice between a free ascent into a raging surface current and clearing my computer on a line I will do the line.

 

[jongles]

Billt4sf like yourself I never ever considered going into deco its something that is drummed into us recreational divers. While I was aware what my computer required that I do a 10 minute deco stop I was unaware that once I had completed said stop my computer would then start counting off my 3 minute safety stop.

DumpsterDiver -Apologies for my incorrect terminologies safety stop/deco stop . Just to clarify when I got on the boat I immediately told another DM what was going on. That DM was working for the dive shop.Unfortunately in the time it took me to surface, swim to the boat, board and relate what was going on the other divers had surfaced. devondiver has clarified what my correct response should have been. Handing over my gear to the DM never occured to me and probably at my training level would not have been a safe option. However I could have stayed and let them use my air and then surface with some air. The guide gave me a quite emphatic signal to surface and rightly or wrongly I did. Checking other divers computers or air? yes I have checked other divers for air before but its only ever happened when I've been buddied with divers who seem to have forgotten what the hand gesture for how much air have you got is. I'm not sure if I want to get into a habit of checking other (far more experienced) divers air and computers. If I do I might end up at the bottom of the ocean with a reg up my a** however in this incident it was probably warranted as the couple repeatedly gave us the OK throughout the dive when clearly everything was far from Ok.
As an aside, the next week while diving at another location with another dive shop I was buddied up with a rescue diver with over 300 logged dives who at the surface joked how he had about 200 psi left at the safety stop . I did not dive with him again.

 

[Agility]

I cannot find the word Divemaster in the OP
A guide is a guide is a guide.
A guide is there to show me (or us) the pretty fish, lead us to the places nice things can usually be seen and show the way back to the exit.
I do not expect a guide to get me out of trouble, it is my own resposibility to keep out of trouble.
I have dived with buddy-pairs that intentionally went into deco although the briefing had explicitly been stay within NDL, it is their dive, their risk and their problem if they run out of gas.
This might sound selfish but I am not willing to risk my life for strangers who should know what they are doing according to their training level.

 

[jongles]

Agility you are correct. Many responses talk about DMs. I didn't really want to get into correcting everyone. It was a guide who led the group and he was also my buddy. I believe he was not a DM. The standard practise in Indonesia is that guides haven't done there DM as the cost of renewing it each year is prohibitive.You can if you wish pay for a DM to lead a group.
This I suppose is the crux of my "can a guide also be your buddy" question. He has dual priorities me as his buddy and then keeping the group happy.

 

[DogDiver]

If I were in that situation, i would have tried to look at the other people's computers and air supply and if it looked "short" then I would have most likely removed my scuba unit, handed it to the the DM, made a free ascent from 20 feet and then when I showed up on the surface with no tank, the dive boat operator would probably get the message that things were getting serious underwater. Not that this is something a new diver should do..

Sorry guys....I'm not leaving my gas and or gear with some other idiot underwater. When other divers on a dive boat ask me about my redundant regulator on the "H" valve and why it only has a 40 inch hose... I emphatically let them know, It's my redundant gas supply and not for air sharing. Enough Said