DIR- GUE GUE's work with governments and local authorities

[mariosx]

Dear all,

Apologies for this thread, but it has nothing to do for the vast majority of divers (GUE or not). But it has everything to do with a thing all of us enjoy: navigating Kafkian bureaucratic nightmares...

Saying that, it is of some value to have a thread showing a collection of service and collaborations of GUE with local authorities and governments, thus I decided to start from here before reaching directly GUE HQ. I feel that such documentation, may not only help my weird situation, but also popularize an important core aspect of our agency that most divers are not aware of.

Spoiler with more details follows:

Spoiler: Personal reasons and motivation (tl;dr)

I am in large research institute into Norway, a country that has passed extremely tough regulations on work-related diving due to accidents in the (hardcore) commercial sector. This has also an effect in scientific diving for research, even in very controlled environments (i.e. pool). I am a GUE-F diver with a fair amount of experience conducting experiments, and this does not only limit myself. It also prohibits any collaborations with awesome labs in the US that use students to collect data or professors themselves with GUE training from GUE-F to C2+ certifications, given that my organization would have some responsibility on risks if we collaborate. Using project money to pay commercial divers testing gear they don't understand in pools 2 meters deep or even worse... flying them to Mexico or Barbados for a week, is completely unsustainable and ridiculous.

After intense discussions from my side on how I could perform research and have meaningful collaborations abroad... the risk assessment manager looked intrigued when I mentioned the high-quality training of GUE and its direct involvement in projects supporting local authorities and governments worldwide. Their idea of a diver, is what they see in ads from touristy LDSs. Assuming I compile a convincing case to allow the higher-ups assume the "risk" of simple open-water data gathering in maximum of 20-30 meters (for the 90% of the operations I am thinking), or including cave diving with very competent GUE divers (including WKPP/CINDAQ/etc), they are likely to allow me to move forward.

P/S: If anybody know THE person to contact from GUE HQ that could assist on this matter would be of great help. The GUE instructors I know are already busy this period of time or are taking some time off for Thanksgiving, and I feel people checking this post may have a bit more time to spare.

 

[Dex~]

Hey buddy! Feel free to get in touch with Dorota, she's the GUE VP and she's super helpful! On another note, there are some really enthusiastic cave instructors out there who are involved in a lot of cave projects. I personally know Ricardo Constantino in Spain whose i really recommend, and Andrea Marassich in Sardinia – who happened to own Phreatic organization and all about cave exploration and surveying.

If you're in the US, you can also connect with Kiril, who's really active in both tech diving and cave stuff – plus, he's on the GUE Board of Directors!

let me know if u need help, and i'll try to help u as much as i can.

 

[mariosx]

Awesome. Thanks for the super quick reply. I know Ricardo by proxy but not Andrea or Dorota. The problem is that I am not in the US anymore but in Norway, though I will go to the US 3-4 times until May, so passing from High-Springs wouldn't be too difficult.

Do you thing Dorota might be the most "responsible" on this? I assume that she will have experience advertising more professionally the organization and she is pretty active, so I was a bit more hesitant to reach. If you thing she is my best choice I can check with her.

Sam Meacham is also in my list, since I know that CINDAQ has been very convincing with the Mexican authorities.

 

[Rich1280]

It may also be worth reaching out to Rich Walker, he's the GUE to EUF liaison so that may have something in it. He's also done a good amount of project diving and organising, and is a visiting Professor at University of the Highlands and Islands in Scotland for links to some of their projects, as well as formerly working in University and University dive society. He might know how to navigate some of the politics of the system I think. You'd probably get him through his website.
Who is Rich Walker

Rich (a different one)

 

[Dex~]

Awesome. Thanks for the super quick reply. I know Ricardo by proxy but not Andrea or Dorota. The problem is that I am not in the US anymore but in Norway, though I will go to the US 3-4 times until May, so passing from High-Springs wouldn't be too difficult.

Do you thing Dorota might be the most "responsible" on this? I assume that she will have experience advertising more professionally the organization and she is pretty active, so I was a bit more hesitant to reach. If you thing she is my best choice I can check with her.

Sam Meacham is also in my list, since I know that CINDAQ has been very convincing with the Mexican authorities.

I believe Doro will help and if she can't she will direct you to someone who is.. You may also contact either Ricardo or Mara..

It may also be worth reaching out to Rich Walker, he's the GUE to EUF liaison so that may have something in it. He's also done a good amount of project diving and organising, and is a visiting Professor at University of the Highlands and Islands in Scotland for links to some of their projects, as well as formerly working in University and University dive society. He might know how to navigate some of the politics of the system I think. You'd probably get him through his website.
Who is Rich Walker

Rich (a different one)

Richard also is a very reputable instructor and plays huge part of GUE community in the UK.. you can contact him as well maybe he can support you.

 

[mariosx]

Thanks a lot guys. Seriously!

I may start with Richard since Norway has quite a few connections with the UK, and being an academic with so many diving projects, he seems to really have experience on putting his hands in the mud regarding regulations.

Underwater technology research (at least in my domain) is really suffering the last years from these regulations, and if we achieve some recognition for GUE in simple operations, it would be a huge boost for the organization but also for our research.

 

[sea_ledford]

I'm not a GUE diver, but I am familiar with organizational reciprocity and Kafkian bureaucratic nightmares. It sounds like you have two different problems going on; first is convincing people that the divers you want to use are highly experienced and capable people, not muppets that just took a try dive. The second is getting authority or exemptions from rules to use those divers.

Solving the first problem doesn't address the second. If you haven't already, reach out to the World Scientific Diving Council (World Scientific Diving Training Council), or if you don't have a way in there, you could try to talk to Derek Smith, who is an AAUS past president. Derek was very much into creating some equivalency between AAUS and European scientific diving programs, so he'll probably be able to point you in the right direction at least. His email is derek@divingscientists.org.

Another point of contact is Martin Sayer at the European Scientific Diving Panel. I don't have his contact info.

I'm not too familiar with European scientific diving regulations, but I know enough to know that it is not straigt forward, and different countries have wildly different regulations.

Good luck!

 

[mariosx]

I'm not a GUE diver, but I am familiar with organizational reciprocity and Kafkian bureaucratic nightmares. It sounds like you have two different problems going on; first is convincing people that the divers you want to use are highly experienced and capable people, not muppets that just took a try dive. The second is getting authority or exemptions from rules to use those divers.

Solving the first problem doesn't address the second. If you haven't already, reach out to the World Scientific Diving Council (World Scientific Diving Training Council), or if you don't have a way in there, you could try to talk to Derek Smith, who is an AAUS past president. Derek was very much into creating some equivalency between AAUS and European scientific diving programs, so he'll probably be able to point you in the right direction at least. His email is derek@divingscientists.org.

Another point of contact is Martin Sayer at the European Scientific Diving Panel. I don't have his contact info.

I'm not too familiar with European scientific diving regulations, but I know enough to know that it is not straigt forward, and different countries have wildly different regulations.

Good luck!

Oh. I truly appreciate your comment.

It seems that the authority comes from my organization itself, so my approach was to minimize the "moving parts", and stick with GUE since (un)fortunately my colleagues in the US dive with GUE protocols and won't change.

But Now that I check it, WSDTC seems to have some more weight internationally and could be one extra pressure point to assist my case. I appreciate all the contacts you shared!

Thanks a lot! I am sure I will need every luck possible. In parallel I have started gathering frustrated researchers/professors/etc that cannot dive any more and their output have been decrease or adapted in non-desired ways. I think/(almost) know that non of them have pushed it yet too much, but hopefully they will be motivated.

 

[tursiops]

IAPDS - International Association of Professional Diving Scientists

 

[ginti]

Consider the following:

The GUE scientific diver certification gives access to the European scientific diving certification; you can get the certificate even without GUE. Diogo Paulo is the reference for this course, and he likely knows quite a lot about these problems.

Be aware that one thing is if you are "working" for a university - another is if you are an external person and you are volunteering. In Sardinia, with Mara, most projects are citizen science projects - so there is no problem with insurance, certification, etc. You just go, document what you do, and if it's fine from a scientific standpoint some researchers will use it (of course, there is often an agreement in advance). To make it clear: the divers are not paid in any way, and they are not associated with any university.

I believe that if you want to be associated to a research entity of any kind, you'll need some form of certification and insurance