GUE Training Question

[scubamarketing]

Why do you "imagine" everything is an "attack", and that everyone is taking things personally?? I'm not attacking you, nor am I taking anything you say about your class experience personally. My view is based on what you have written.

You seem to have a odd view of an opposing view in this thread. If anyone disagrees with you....you play the "attacking me" card, followed by your apparent favorite, the "you are taking it personally" card. I've given my opinion, base on what I read from your posts no more than that.

I've been told more than once on here that my opinion is wrong. I've been told I didn't even take the class. I've been called a liar and an egomaniac. I don't particularly care, but it has happened. Had the feedback been received in the nature in which it was given, I could have forgotten about this thread long ago.

Anyway...this thread is becoming a little too dramatic for me.

See, we're agreeing on so much now!

 

[danvolker]

Having worked as, worked with, or trained customer service roles since I was 15, there's no need to aggressively defend against feedback. We get feedback all the time, I always read it and at least respond with "Thank you for your feedback". Some of it gets passed on to people who can change/fix things. Some feedback is people just looking to be heard. But the bottom line is that all people working in some form of customer service, which you are if you're a GUE instructor, employee, or promoter, should take advice in the manner in which it was given instead of taking it personally. I have thick skin, but I don't know if I have thick enough skin to take all the feedback we get personally. Then again, I know it's not personal and I take it graciously even if I have no intent on changing anything from said feedback.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my fairly clear statements and thought I was saying that Fundies was/is a waste of time. I've been saying from the get go is that it may not be for everyone. A very honest answer to anyone considering taking the course. It's not for my girlfriend because she has no interest in this style of diving and her skills aren't ready for it. That's honest. Yes, she'd learn a metric ton from it, but she wouldn't like the course and she wouldn't feel she got value from it because it's not relevant to her interests as a diver. I know her very well and am able to give that honest assessment. It's not saying GUE Fundies is a waste of time, it's just saying it would be for her at this point.

Don't take feedback personally, especially when it's not even close to being personal. From someone with far too much experience with this, the best thing about immediately taking feedback and making the customer feel heard is they tend to not continue talking about their problem.

OK Scubamarketing......please understand I don't see a DIR forum on Scubaboard ---- as a place for what you call "Feedback" --- or that this "feedback" was offered supposedly to assist in the instructor's business to be better with many future students.....

I see it as a post "dropped in here", with the intention of causing divers wishing for advanced instruction, to look SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN GUE. You apparently see your self as a "Marketing Guy".....this place you are posting in is a powerful Social Media, a place where many divers will visit and from the interactions here--and the reviews, will decide the advertisements they saw in magazines as garbage propaganda and largely impossible to trust....versus a social media where so many "end users" discuss products and services, and training, that a much better assessment can be made.....

What you did, and what you know you did, was to attempt to negatively market GUE, in a Social Media....

I don't know that your expectation was that this could in any direct way get more divers to search YOU out for your "higher level of training"...
Maybe you just were getting tired of hearing about Fundies as the "high bar" that many dive classes are compared against, and you were hoping to eliminate this "bar"...as you found it upsetting to your sales cycle.

If you are truly hoping to offer constructive feedback, the appropriate venue would be to GUE....and with your credentials, why not straight to JJ himself?

 

[scubamarketing]

OK Scubamarketing......please understand I don't see a DIR forum on Scubaboard ---- as a place for what you call "Feedback" --- or that this "feedback" was offered supposedly to assist in the instructor's business to be better with many future students.....

My original feedback was directly related to the OP's question. GUE fans questioned my response, I gave clarifying information, then it just kept going on both sides. When I early on mentioned how I wish there were ways to test out of things, that was feedback to all people GUE.

I see it as a post "dropped in here", with the intention of causing divers wishing for advanced instruction, to look SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN GUE....What you did, and what you know you did, was to attempt to negatively market GUE, in a Social Media....

Not at all, sorry you misinterpreted it that way. As I've said many, many times, I think GUE and Fundies is great for a lot of people. I (one guy's feedback) wasn't terribly impressed with my experience.

I don't know that your expectation was that this could in any direct way get more divers to search YOU out for your "higher level of training"...

Maybe you just were getting tired of hearing about Fundies as the "high bar" that many dive classes are compared against, and you were hoping to eliminate this "bar"...as you found it upsetting to your sales cycle.

Good idea, sadly no. I only teach very close family and friends these days with the occasional fill in at my LDS when they need an extra instructor, so that's definitely not the motive.

If you are truly hoping to offer constructive feedback, the appropriate venue would be to GUE....and with your credentials, why not straight to JJ himself?

Based on my experience here, it's pretty clear GUE people in general aren't interested in constructive feedback and would rather attempt to discredit the person giving it.

Feel free to keep coming up with wild theories as to why I'm giving the feedback I am, it all makes for a pretty entertaining read The truth, as spelled out many, many times is simply that I would like realistic expectations set. I have no problem telling some divers that certain classes of mine would really just be a way to collect a card, I have no problem voicing my distaste for PADI's Go Pro initiative despite being a PADI Master Instructor, I simply think giving divers and those considering diving realistic expectations at every level of training or diving is a pretty easy way to make sure people feel like they're getting a good value out of their hobby.

 

[danvolker]

Based on my experience here, it's pretty clear GUE people in general aren't interested in constructive feedback and would rather attempt to discredit the person giving it.

Feel free to keep coming up with wild theories as to why I'm giving the feedback I am, it all makes for a pretty entertaining read The truth, as spelled out many, many times is simply that I would like realistic expectations set. I have no problem telling some divers that certain classes of mine would really just be a way to collect a card, I have no problem voicing my distaste for PADI's Go Pro initiative despite being a PADI Master Instructor, I simply think giving divers and those considering diving realistic expectations at every level of training or diving is a pretty easy way to make sure people feel like they're getting a good value out of their hobby.

Scubamarketing.... So why have a screen name that screams " I am in Sales" if you are not trying to market your dive instruction?
REgardless, you are NOT chatting with GUE here ( the guys or girls that make policy) .....You are not even chatting with GUE instructors..
You are chatting with a few GUE students and grads of Fundies, and a few DIR's like myself.....and a whole bunch of people that have never taken a GUE course yet are reading your "negative marketing advertorials".

If you want to know what GUE thinks about your experiences--and I'd swear you are saying you want them to know about this....then you really have an obligation to your self to contact Jarrod Jablonski. One thing I will tell you about JJ...he is a very nice human being, if you speak with him, he will be nice to you ( you won't think he is mean like you suggest some of us here have been to you .....he will think about what you are saying, and he will give it real consideration. There are not many people like JJ, and you should take advantage of this.

 

[scubamarketing]

Scubamarketing.... So why have a screen name that screams " I am in Sales" if you are not trying to market your dive instruction?

Because when I signed up on here, I was a marketing consultant to various players in the dive industry. I run the social media marketing for LeisurePro. It has nothing to do with my nonexistent dive instruction business, but instead that I do marketing in the dive industry for a living.

REgardless, you are NOT chatting with GUE here ( the guys or girls that make policy) .....You are not even chatting with GUE instructors..
You are chatting with a few GUE students and grads of Fundies, and a few DIR's like myself.....and a whole bunch of people that have never taken a GUE course yet are reading your "negative marketing advertorials".

If you want to know what GUE thinks about your experiences--and I'd swear you are saying you want them to know about this....then you really have an obligation to your self to contact Jarrod Jablonski. One thing I will tell you about JJ...he is a very nice human being, if you speak with him, he will be nice to you ( you won't think he is mean like you suggest some of us here have been to you .....he will think about what you are saying, and he will give it real consideration. There are not many people like JJ, and you should take advantage of this.

Honest feedback on a course is not "negative marketing advertorials", sorry. But your point is duly noted, when I'm done with work for the day I plan to send JJ my feedback on my experience with GUE, thank you for that suggestion.

 

[Cyprian]

Hello DIR Divers
I have been researching GUE diving and it appears that, due to their high standards, many people do not pass on their first attempt. As best I can tell, a class is approx. $500 - $600 plus expenses. So my question is if a 'candidate' does not pass on the first attempt, do they have to pay the $500-6000 again or does GUE allow the instructor to work with them until they meet the standards?

Howdy Dave,

As others have posted in this thread, very few fail Fundies. At the risk of being redundant: The three levels are provisional, rec pass and tech pass. If you score a provisional, you have 6 months to return (which can be extended provided the instructor agrees). The other two are passes. Now, should you want to continue along the GUE course, you will need a tech pass to get into the Level 1 technical courses. If you scored a rec pass in Fundies, you can go back and upgrade to tech. There is no time constraint on this.

I achieved a rec pass in my Fundies class and then upgraded to tech about 6 months later. I can tell you that my instructor will allow former students to attend the last two days of a Fundies class to upgrade for free, provided that the class is not full. In my case, living in Texas, we brought our instructor to us for the tech upgrade. I say we meaning me and my original teammates. The cost was not bad at all. He drove to Texas himself with all equipment, charged us a daily fee and a whopping $100 a piece for travel expenses. It was cheaper to bring him to us than to travel to FL and sit in on a "free" Fundies class for the last 2 days.

Your location states: Southeast USA....so you should have an instructor fairly close!

I wish you success should you plan to take Fundies, sir.

 

[Peter Guy]

Scubamarketing -- You are absolutely correct that not all GUE classes are great nor are all instructors appropriate for all students. And Dan Volker is absolutely wrong when he writes that GUE Fundies is unique -- it is not.

I'm also curious to know what it is about Fundies that makes it a non-starter class for your girlfriend -- but that's another issue.

A little back ground -- I'm one of the very unique people who has taken BOTH UTD Essentials (actually before UTD existed and I took essentials from a former GUE instructor) and GUE Fundies. I am also a PADI instructor and was asked by PADI to submit a formal request for a Distinctive Specialty BASED on Fundies (there are now at least 3 PADI instructors who are teaching the class as a PADI Distinctive Specialty). In addition, I have also taught classes to GUE Fundies graduates (perhaps even graduates of your aborted class?). So, as I said, I think I have a pretty unique perspective on the general issue of "Is Fundies worthwhile?"

The answer is, NO IT IS NOT WORTHWHILE unless you want it to be. Just as any class isn't worthwhile unless you want it to be. And/or it is not worthwhile if there is a mis-match between you and the instructor.

Sorry about your bad experience.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I am also a PADI instructor and was asked by PADI to submit a formal request for a Distinctive Specialty BASED on Fundies (there are now at least 3 PADI instructors who are teaching the class as a PADI Distinctive Specialty).

PADI has a Fundamentals style course?
I actually think that's a step in a positive direction.

Is it mainly a skills enhancement course? As in a continuation of the PPB.

Or does it also incorporate equipment configuration and team diving aspects? As in much closer to the Fundamentals course in content.

It's obviously pretty new, since there are so few Instructors teaching it. Very cool though.

What are the minimum requirements for Instructors to teach it? I'm just thinking way ahead.

-Mitch

 

[Peter Guy]

Mitch -- the "TecReational Diver Distinctive Specialty" is a class I created based on Essentials and Fundies. I was, in fact, asked by people at PADI to submit it to be a Distinctive Specialty (an involved and somewhat funny story that was told on SB a year ago) so I did and it was approved as a Distinctive Specialty. D.S.'s are interesting in that they belong to the person who submits them (me) but I thought this was a class that others should teach so I published the outline and told PADI that anyone (perhaps with the exception of someone in the Seattle area!) could submit it as their own.

You (and the rest of the world) can read the class outline/prerequisites at:

http://www.belowandbeyond.biz/TEC/TecReational_Outline.pdf

BoulderJohn is authorized to teach it and one other PADI instructor asked me and told me he submitted and was approved. I have no idea if anyone else has.

Perhaps the biggest difference between what I submitted and Fundies/Essentials is that the class is specifically "gear agnostic." It is absolutely designed for the recreational diver in whatever gear configuration they have -- but they do get to explain why they have the gear they have (which is usually quite enlightening).

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Thanks for elaborating on that Peter.
That is pretty cool!

Cheers,
Mitch