GUE Training Question

[danvolker]

I don't really care if it "flies in the face of what we read from virtually every Fundies graduate", that was my experience. It was most definitely not the most significant diving class I ever took aside from the price (aside from my IDC).



This sentence isn't entirely clear, so I'll do my best to interpret it. I don't claim all TDI tech divers are awesome, I've seen plenty. I didn't pick TDI for any specific reason other than I've gotten along with my instructors and feel they teach tech/cave in a similar way to how I teach OW through AI. And my Fundies wasn't a week of diving, it was 3 days that were cut short.



Again, not in my case. I didn't learn trim or finning in Fundies, I already had that down from almost 15 years of being an instructor. Gas management takes all of 5 minutes to learn. The deco concepts and pre-dive checklist took another hour maybe. Getting comfortable in DIR gear took one dive. Therefore, for me, what I was saying was that learning how to fit a harness, do S-drills, and a complete tech-oriented pre-dive checklist, along with doing the one dive to get comfortable with the gear, was equivalent to the one day of TDI Intro to Tech. For me.



Unfortunately, I'm not willing to spend $650-900 to take Fundies again when I won't learn anything new. So GUE is not an option going forward for me, which I find unfortunate because I do like their curriculum for several courses.

Sounds like the stars just were not aligned for your class..... As to the money spent...Sorry for your loss.

 

[PfcAJ]

... I won't learn anything new.

 

[scubamarketing]

Sounds like the stars just were not aligned for your class..... As to the money spent...Sorry for your loss.

Agreed that things were not aligned. There are also divers I've trained, worked with, and gone diving with plenty who I can't suggest spending $650-900 for Fundies, that's why I spoke up. I don't think it's the perfect class for everyone. For most divers, most definitely. For many of the people I've spent my years diving with, I'd feel really bad if I talked them into spending that money. And hey, it's just money, right? As a dive pro, I at least got to write the course off on my taxes, so there was a little break there.

I guess in an ideal world, there'd be some kind of lower-priced evaluation and different levels of fundies. I would have gladly paid something just for the dives and use of the gear if nothing else.

Good job taking it out of context. Do you really think that since I've already taken Fundies minus the last dive, have done Full Cave, Intro to Tech, Advanced Nitrox, and Deco Procedures, I'll get $650-900 worth of value out of taking Fundies again? Sure, I might learn something, I learn something on every dive, but if every dive cost me $650-900 I'd find another hobby.

 

[PfcAJ]

maybe. ive seen my fair share of guys with the same certs that would get 900bucks worth out of the class.

 

[scubamarketing]

I'll make you a deal: I'll pay $900 to take Fundies again (on top of the $650 I already spent), if I don't get $900 value out of it you reimburse me both for the class and my time, sound reasonable?

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't think you'd admit that you did get your money's worth. No deal.

 

[TSandM]

I'm confused. I thought your instructor canceled the class, but you speak as though you took it?

I've heard quite a few people say that they wish there were a way to "test out". I'll tell you the story of my C2 class, and why I don't think that's a good idea. In our class, we had three divers. One had far more experience than the other two; he was an active and accomplished technical diver in the Mediterranean, routinely doing sub-200 foot dives. His diving skills rocked -- he was by far and away the most solid of the three of us. The problem was that he had taken his GUE C1 11 years earlier, from an instructor who was later let go from the agency. He did not know any of the protocols we use now. He did not have the training in working as a coordinated team. It made a big impact on our failures management, and honestly, despite his great skills, it was too hard to bring him up to the reflex response level he needed to reach, in the time available for the class.

GUE diving isn't just good buoyancy and trim. It isn't just gas management. It's about working as a team, sharing procedures and protocols, and knowing that the people you're diving with will react in a predictable and intelligible way. I have been told, and believe, that this is one of the biggest reasons why "testing out" is strongly discouraged and rarely done.

I have read multiple reports of Fundamentals classes taken by people ranging from Full Cave divers with other agencies, to technical instructor certifications with other agencies, and those people have stated the class was extremely valuable and useful to them. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.

 

[scubamarketing]

I don't think you'd admit that you did get your money's worth. No deal.

Yup, you got it. Without ever meeting me or speaking to me, you figured out I'm a pathological liar. Too bad I lied about being a pathological liar. Too bad I've tipped instructors for several classes because I thought they didn't charge enough, I'm a big boy, I can admit when I get my moneys worth.

I'm confused. I thought your instructor canceled the class, but you speak as though you took it?

We did academic and started two of the dives which he aborted due to visibility.

GUE diving isn't just good buoyancy and trim. It isn't just gas management. It's about working as a team, sharing procedures and protocols, and knowing that the people you're diving with will react in a predictable and intelligible way. I have been told, and believe, that this is one of the biggest reasons why "testing out" is strongly discouraged and rarely done.

This is actually part of why I'd be interested in GUE if I didn't have to spend $650-900 to take a course I already took 90% of. I like the concept. I don't like how it's also a team sport any time anyone has a differing experience or opinion on GUE courses though.

I have read multiple reports of Fundamentals classes taken by people ranging from Full Cave divers with other agencies, to technical instructor certifications with other agencies, and those people have stated the class was extremely valuable and useful to them. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.

Everyone is different. Had we finished the course and I at least got the certification so I could choose to move on with GUE if I wanted to, it would have been close to worth it. Since the only thing I haven't learned via other classes that was in Fundies is team diving, the $650 I paid for a Fundies course definitely was not worth it to me.

I'd kept my honest experience and opinions to myself because I had a feeling the pro-GUE people would do everything to summarily discount anything I said. I should have kept it to myself because my expectations ended up being completely true.

For me, for my money, my GUE Fundies course was not worth what I paid and there is no way I would ever pay $650-900 to take it over again. Your mileage may vary, but this is what happened to me and how I feel about GUE as an organization.

 

[kathydee]

Hello DIR Divers
I have been researching GUE diving and it appears that, due to their high standards, many people do not pass on their first attempt. As best I can tell, a class is approx. $500 - $600 plus expenses. So my question is if a 'candidate' does not pass on the first attempt, do they have to pay the $500-6000 again or does GUE allow the instructor to work with them until they meet the standards?

Hi Dave,

I think it's best to just check which Fundies instructor runs classes in your area. Send an email and ask their policy on additional training & recheck dives (if needed). Due to geographic proximity/instructor availability, some rechecks are logistically easy and some are more difficult to arrange. The option may also exists to dive with local GUE divers after your class, build skills, and later challenge a provisional or recreational pass with a different GUE instructor.

Some instructors set inclusive rates for the classes, and others simply charge the instructional fee & you pay the extra expenses (such as boat, etc). The instructor you choose will be able to estimate the total class cost. Just ask him/her directly.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions regarding contacts.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

It's unfortunate that you were not able to schedule completing the course within the next year.
I can understand that, since I'm sometimes away from home for more than 6 months per year.

I also get that it's too much "team" for some folks; it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I happen to like it very much, and feel fortunate to have other divers that are also into it.

If I were the only diver around, and was doing it alone, just signing up for a class with strangers far away....I can understand why people would not be into it.

I was fortunate, because I was able to find a buddy that wanted to take the first class with me.
Since that first class, we have organized multiple classes, and now have 12 GUE trained divers here.

All from that initial class of two....and a lot of enthusiasm and organizing.
The team aspect is exactly what many of us here are looking for.

I will say that you would certainly benefit from taking the parts of the class you never took. There are more aspects to the course that build on the first days.

Whether it's worth the green that it costs (to you)....I can't say.
As for me...my class was worth every Yenjamin.