GUE recreational classes - early details

[Thalassamania]

Interesting, that makes the GUE Rec 1 course about the same as entry level courses were in the 1970s (at least in terms of time and commitment). There are a fair number of NAUI Instructors and a few LA County Instructors out there still teaching to about that schedule. I can't wait to see what happens.

 

[Blackwood]

^^ meaning industry-wide?

If so, not much, I figure. GUE isn't nearly big enough to make a wide impact. And growing enough to do so would likely require an adverse affect on their quality. Sadly.

 

[Geoff_H]

Umm, since the classes start out at Nitrox, non-divers don't have an option to take that class?

Or is this a GUE OW certification?

I think its an open water cert aimed at non divers, which will teach how to use Nitrox.

 

[John_B]

Although, the link doesn't work any longer and I can't find the standards on the GUE website any longer.

Much like Google, the Wayback Machine is your friend. :14:

 

[amascuba]

As I said, I think it will be interesting, how they fit Fundies into all this. It doesn't make sense to run people all the way through Rec 3 to go on to Cave 1, for example. It may be that Fundies will stand as it is now, as an independent filter for those intending to go on to technical training, but there may no longer be a "rec pass" from Fundies. It would make sense to have Fundies require doubles and a can light, and be a pure prerequisite for tech classes. But that would leave all the people who now use the class to improve their skills facing Rec Triox, which is a MUCH harder class. I don't know the answer.

I've seen this question answered before.... I'm trying to remember where. It may have been on the quest list. If I remember correctly, The Fundamentals course will remain the same and will be geared towards divers who are already OW qualified and will still have the same rec/tec pass status'. The rec 1 course will be geared towards non-certified divers and will have the same option to move forward with tech/cave courses without having to take an Fundamentals course... I'll see if I can dig up the specifics.

 

[trogloxene]

From Jarrod Jablonski (GUE Quest email):

"The recreational and Fundamentals curriculum treat two different needs within the GUE student base. The Fundamentals curriculum is designed for students
that are entering the GUE curriculum from other diver training
programs. This program is designed to remediate buoyancy, trim,
teamwork and other capacities useful to safe enjoyable recreational
diving; these skills are also critical to success in tech or cave
training which is the purpose of the Fundamentals Tech rating
(required to enter GUE tech/cave). Meanwhile the GUE recreational
programs are designed to train and then develop non-divers. These
programs would not require Fundamentals training as these skills are
developed within the GUE recreational curriculum.

The GUE recreational curriculum is organized as follows:

GUE Recreational Level 1 - Nitrox Diver (32% Nitrox)
GUE's entry level diver training is a comprehensive program designed
for non-divers. The program includes the academic and skill
foundation we all wish we had in the first place, including Nitrox
and basic decompression concepts. I am thrilled with the way this
program has developed and remain grateful to several dedicated GUE
instructors including work group leader Jesper Berglund as well as
hard work from Liam Allen, Richard Lundgren, HeleneHagerman and many
others.

GUE Recreational Level 2 - Triox Diver (Nitrox 32, 30/30)
GUE's version of a proper advanced diver course, including training
in current, boat, deeper (recreational (100'/30m), enhanced rescue etc.

GUE Recreational Level 3 - Trimix Diver (Nitrox 32, 30/30, Trimix 21/35)
GUE's recreational deep diving course includes expanded stage
decompression stops with a single deco bottle. This course is
excellent preparation for tech/cave training including training in
key areas of difficulty for tech diving students. This program is
best related to the first few days of the tech diving program but
with limited failures and with a focus upon valve management,
precision ascents, deco bottle management and diving to a depth of
130'/40m. The 32% deco bottle maintains a recreational PO2 at 70'/21m
(conventional 50% stop depth) while supporting a favorable min gas,
allowing one to develop experience with deco bottles and providing a
favorable ascent gas.


Jarrod Jablonski"


Sean

 

[rainman_02]

GUE Recreational Level 3 - Trimix Diver (Nitrox 32, 30/30, Trimix 21/35)
GUE's recreational deep diving course includes expanded stage decompression stops with a single deco bottle. This course is excellent preparation for tech/cave training including training in key areas of difficulty for tech diving students. This program is
best related to the first few days of the tech diving program but with limited failures and with a focus upon valve management, precision ascents, deco bottle management and diving to a depth of 130'/40m. The 32% deco bottle maintains a recreational PO2 at 70'/21m (conventional 50% stop depth) while supporting a favorable min gas,
allowing one to develop experience with deco bottles and providing a favorable ascent gas.

ppN2 on 21/35 at 130' is 2.17 ATA. It takes roughly 2 minutes to go from 130' to 70'. This is not long enough to gain any kind of deco advantage in the gradient. Switch gasses at 70'...ppN2 is now 2.12 ATA. Your ppO2 is only 0.98 ATA. You can't shape the curve. You can't open an O2 window. You have to push the gradient. You're doing one minute of deco for every minute of bottom time...and if you have a lost gas scenario, you're doing two minutes of deco for every minute of bottom time.

Bottom line: Deco is not a "recreational" concept. Sure, every dive is a deco dive...but there's a vast difference between min deco and deco to keep you from getting bent.


This class is the anathema of everything else GUE stands for. It flies in the face of all other teachings and standardizations.

 

[Bismark]

ppN2 on 21/35 at 130' is 2.17 ATA. It takes roughly 2 minutes to go from 130' to 70'. This is not long enough to gain any kind of deco advantage in the gradient. Switch gasses at 70'...ppN2 is now 2.12 ATA. Your ppO2 is only 0.98 ATA. You can't shape the curve. You can't open an O2 window. You have to push the gradient. You're doing one minute of deco for every minute of bottom time...and if you have a lost gas scenario, you're doing two minutes of deco for every minute of bottom time.

Bottom line: Deco is not a "recreational" concept. Sure, every dive is a deco dive...but there's a vast difference between min deco and deco to keep you from getting bent.


This class is the anathema of everything else GUE stands for. It flies in the face of all other teachings and standardizations.

Rainman, I believe that using the deco bottle is more an attempt to familiarize the up and coming tech student with carrying and using an al 40 than it is an attempt to maximize deco performance. If you recall from your Tech I, the first few dives with the al 40 also used 32%. My personal thoughts are that unless you have established a very solid set of buoyancy skills as demonstrated to the standard of Tech I, using 50% or 02 is a very dangerous practise. It would be very easy to exceed your MOD of both 02 and 50% within the diving depth limits of Rec 3 but not so much with 32%
We have this discussion up here all the time and in fact, there is a very strong school of thought that insists that you start carrying an al 40 when you start something like a fundamental equivalent to get you familiar with just carrying the bottle and how that makes things like your trim and spg a little more difficult. Also establishes more awareness of the gear you are most likely to be carrying in the future.

My guess is that you will see this Rec program pop up in academic settings more frequently than dive shops. It looks to be worked out very well for this type of educational setting.

 

[MonkSeal]

This class is the anathema of everything else GUE stands for. It flies in the face of all other teachings and standardizations.

You're taking this too seriously It's not always optimal deco that we aim for. It's safety and developing good practice, training, gas management, whatever. BTW deco on 32 after 21/35 will probably be as same as (or very similar to) deco on 21/35 only after exposures in that range. Check it in field, don't stick only to ppN2, gradient or O2 window analysis.

 

[TSandM]

From reading Jarrod's answer to my questions, it became clear to me that, in essence, the bottle of 32% is backgas deco. It addresses rock bottom concerns for deeper dives, and teaches the handling of a bottle. Decoing out on backgas from very short deco obligations doesn't, at least to me, fly in the face of everything GUE teaches about deco.

It sounds to me as though, if you have completed this sequence, you would be beautifully prepared for a short step into Tech 1, instead of the present system, where the leap from Fundies to Tech 1 is a BIG one.