GUE Practitioners...Convince Me

[Guy Alcala]

I'm kind of torn about your situation. While I understand why you kept the names of the instructors out of the "class report", I also wonder if other instructors are then partially (yet unfairly) cast in the same light.

I have read a few class reports recently that have left me scratching my head as the experience I have had personally and my observations of local GUE classes could not be more completely different than what you posted and what others have posted recently in some class reports.

A couple of specific examples:
- My local dive club posts some pics from each of the classes. For each class, you can clearly see that each drill is practiced first on land before it is tried in the water.
- the instructors in my area are generally flexible with scheduling their classes. Recently, they seem to be following the two weekends format. I don't personally think this provides any time in between sessions to practice but it does offer one a chance to take a step back, get some rest, repair gear, etc.

You do have time to practice some of the drills (dry). I practiced the basic 5 during commercials, sitting in my gear on the floor leaning against the corner of my bed. And it was nice to have the time off to decompress a little from class. I would hate to do fundies in a single bloc of time, although if you have to travel a long distance to the class you'd probably have to.

- The instructors in my area have two basic sites that they can use for the in ocean portion of the class. One site is free (other than parking), the other site costs about $20/day more per student. I guess they spend two days in the ocean so the students wind up paying an extra $40 more to do the other, more preferable site. Though as I understand it, it's the students' choice.

Yes, it is. My class opted for Breakwater because two of us were using doubles de novo, and the other only had limited expereince in them. We didn't want to deal with getting ourselves up and down the usually slick boat ramp at Lobos with all the extra unfamiliar weight on our backs, in addition to everything else. Plus, the vis in the cove is often poor. As it turned out, we had 5'-8' at BW throughout the class, so that was a wash.

I guess the point I am trying to get at is that a lot of the issues you are speaking of are not inherent to GUE but might be specific to the instructors/locations/situations involved. For those who are considering GUE classes, I would say that there are plenty of people who consider the GUE programs to be as good as any and better than most of the other scuba programs out there. However, it does not guarantee that your experience will be to your satisfaction just because it is a GUE class. After all, proper expectations on your part and good execution on the instructor's part are still probably more important than the name of the agency.

Yep. Like Bob (NW Gratefuldiver) the diving I usually do doesn't fit in all that well with GUE protocols, but the class was still the best money I've ever spent on scuba training. But I didn't experience anything like the class problems mentioned here.

Guy

 

[rlynch]

my experiance at EE for Primer was different

day 0 - gear check and shop talk - nothing new here we talked about the plus and minus of my gear and what i needed to change (cut some tails off my cave line ties and get a shorter backup reg hose and SPG (EE only had the 18" SPG hose in stock so the backup LP hose stayed a 30 for the class. Good converation with my instructor doug.

Day 1 - class session - good info presentd but if you read the materials before hand that you can download, they were just reinforcement, i did not find that they were a time share pitch - jus tthe what and the why of GUE.
Diving was done late in the day at Gennie springs - once we were there and preped we did g land drills and the GUE edge. Lead by doug with one of us helping, we stayed shallow for the dive 6ffw the entire time. this dive was 100% finning drills (after mod s drills and why GUE does them) - frog, Mod Frog, flutter, and Mod flutter with back kick and helicopter at the end (all of us struggled with those too) - the bouancy required for 6 feet to stay off the bottom what a great learning experiance for me personally. my faults were explained to me and what i can do to correct them (see my post on the fins)

Day 2 was spent at Blue grotto - more land drills and dives at 15 FFW - we practiced finning again while staying netrual in the water along with decent and ascent drills, followed by a balanced rig test from 10 feet.
Second dive was a course + finning drills + SMB deploy demo + OOG drill demo

everything was video taped which was great for debreif (kate was our Videogropher, and she recieved her tech pass on these dives with us).

Cost was $300 + gennie and blue grotto entry fee's, fills were free as well as tanks, etc if you needed them. i borowed a set of jets free as well.

Doug was a great instructor, patient and willing to take the time with a struggling student, and answer any question that came up.I

All this was done at EE in High springs where i plan to take all my GUE classes (it is 7 hours drive for me and there are cheap motels locally @ ~$40/night to stay in)

all in all the quality of GUE instruction was above what i have experianced in the past (i had a very good tech diver for my Padi rescue class and hope that DM will be the same in the spring) and I will be taking Fundimentals in Dec in High Springs (PM me if you in the class, please)

overall the quality of the instruction has been first rate, no suprises and inline with my personal goals.

 

[MarkHerm]

Thanks for the report, SPG01

Maybe I set a higher standard than I should have for the class after all the reading?

I am planning on taking fundies within the next couple of month and I see that this can be a problem.
When most of the people telling you that the course made them so much better divers and how marvellous it is, expectations are high! In addition the overall course costs are way higher than other courses around here, so I expect to the GUE course to be worth the extra money. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any reason to take it... Therefore, expectations are quite high and I suppose that it won't be easy to live up to this.

 

[MonkSeal]

After spending around $2,000 on the class and new gear for the class ...

It would be useful if you can split this figure to class-gear just to give us a clear picture.

Regarding the expectations, you have the right to expect to get best training and you have the right to set the bar of expectations as high as possible. I suggest you to share your view of this course with GUE. Quality control has the task to collect class evaluations, to analyze them and to improve the quality both the clases and the instructors.

 

[gsk3]

I agree it was a combination of circumstances. That is part of the reason why I did not write something up after the class and just moved on. (until now apparently)

Sorry to hear about the bad course experience. Not that this helps you any, but one common factor in this and the one other mediocre Fundies course that I've heard about recently is boats. My Fundies class was taught in a quarry, and therefore we could just hop in whenever the right time came. That made for a smooth flow between surface stuff (lectures and gear prep and food/hydration) and diving. It also, of course, keeps costs down.

Plus doing Fundies in a quarry prepares you for the only dive environment that DIR folks ever dive after their certification--the quarry--right? :mooner:

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Plus doing Fundies in a quarry prepares you for the only dive environment that DIR folks ever dive after their certification--the quarry--right? :mooner:

speak only for yourself qaurrior

 

[lowviz]

....//... I am an incredibly self-motivated, safety conscious person, so regardless of who I choose for certification, I will take initiative to be the most knowledgeable and best diver I can possibly be, which is probably why I am considering GUE. ...//...

I hold similar views. I rarely post in this forum, but I'll offer a bit in the off-chance that it makes your GUE experience easier.

I consider myself to be a rather safe, inshore experienced, and reasonably competent ocean diver. Cave diving and a recent solo course made me aware of serious gaps in my skills. I just have to face the fact that I am not a “precision” diver yet. I am actively attending to this now.

Not all people learn the same way. This quick test has a bit of value as it very simply reinforces my point: What's Your Learning Style? | Edutopia You may wish to delve into determining your learning style much deeper than just taking this pedestrian test. It is easy to find much online.

Once you understand how you best learn diving skills, then you will be better prepared to look for an instructor that suits you. My solo instructor suited me perfectly, thus, I gained much from the course that I did not pass.
Generalizing, GUE is a holistic system. You don’t pick and choose or customize. If this works for you, look for a GUE instructor that fits your learning style. Instructors are people, people are different.

I tend to take a reductionist rather than holistic view of things, just the way I am. Reductionists break systems down into fundamental parts so that they can understand how the system works. A true “Holist” will argue that you can’t understand the system by looking at the functional bits, it only makes sense to study the system itself.

My plan: Once I have the basics of breathing down (OK, maybe not quite as religiously as Tom Mount) I’ll get my rig balanced and then have a go at control. At that point, I’ll be able to determine (for me) which formal instructional path is best for attaining the precision that I lack. Maybe after the required (for me) reductionist start, a holistic approach will be most effective. We shall see.

If you are a "big picture" type, then just charge into GUE. Find a compatible instructor and you will be fine.

We all are different. Don’t be surprised or upset if you end up in a different place with different views of the same instructors. And remember, everything in this post is just my opinion...

Enjoy the journey.

 

[lamont]

I tend to take a reductionist rather than holistic view of things, just the way I am. Reductionists break systems down into fundamental parts so that they can understand how the system works. A true “Holist” will argue that you can’t understand the system by looking at the functional bits, it only makes sense to study the system itself.

incorrect. i'm a reductionist and experimentalist at heart and the GUE system works just fine for me

the bigger determining issue is if your ego has to has its own stamp on your gear and procedures or if you can live with a system designed and debugged by (many) others.

 

[lowviz]

incorrect. i'm a reductionist and experimentalist at heart and the GUE system works just fine for me...//.....

Yeah, I would have to agree by your posts over the years. I'm most intrigued by how you resolved that so well with what I can only imagine is a holistic system of diving.

....//.....the bigger determining issue is if your ego has to has its own stamp on your gear and procedures or if you can live with a system designed and debugged by (many) others.

I'm wrestling with exactly that, my rig that served me well enough in the NE Atlantic, doesn't cut it in caves. I'm not about to re-invent that wheel.

My gear doesn't represent me, my diving does. Unfortunately, major parts of my diving were found to be quite lacking. I'm currently copying the most basic "North Florida Standard" rig. Could be easily argued that this too is a holistic approach.

-your post got me thinking (yet again). Maybe it is only the "our dive" vs. "my dive" GUE credo that I struggle with. Interesting, thanks.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I hold similar views. I rarely post in this forum, but I'll offer a bit in the off-chance that it makes your GUE experience easier.
If you are a "big picture" type, then just charge into GUE. Find a compatible instructor and you will be fine.

We all are different. Don’t be surprised or upset if you end up in a different place with different views of the same instructors. And remember, everything in this post is just my opinion...

Enjoy the journey.

So, you finally took Fundamentals, huh? I must have missed your class report.