PerroneFord
Contributor
Yes Mike, according to my IANTD instructor its true about IANTD being sold. Apparently they are friends (he and Tom Mount) and have had some discussion about it.
Gue/iantd
- Thread starter dsong9
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Hey guys, I'd just like to know if any of your who'd taken you IANTD Deep Air and Advanced Nitrox course experienced the same thing.
As far as what I've read in the IANTD Standards and Procedures, the course covers theory lessons, confined water(which is reckon would be a swim pool) sessions where things like swimming without mask and reg 15m towards a buddy to perform an OOA drill, deploying a lift bag etc are done first and once those are comfortably done in the pool sessions, then we'd move out to OW to perform the watermanship evaluation. I was kinda surprised when I went down for my first pool session only to learn how to streamline my rig, using a SS 12L cylinder with a H valve, and thereafter I was told to swim around the pool and get used to the rig, and the other thing I learnt was the modified frog kick, which he said would be covered in the OW trip, but just taught me anyway, to let me go afor another few tryout swims around the pool with the new stroke. The whole time my instructor was high and dry and sitting on the bench watching me swim.
I asked him what about the different propulsion techniques, lift bag deployment, OOA drills, he sad those are covered when we go out for our OW trip(about 2 weeks from now), conducted in a 'confined water' area. That got me a bit puzzled.
I was expecting in depth, serious dive education, especially now that we're slightly out of the recreational diving levels and moving towards tech, but it didn't give me that sort of a feel.
Was it like that for the rest of you?
As far as what I've read in the IANTD Standards and Procedures, the course covers theory lessons, confined water(which is reckon would be a swim pool) sessions where things like swimming without mask and reg 15m towards a buddy to perform an OOA drill, deploying a lift bag etc are done first and once those are comfortably done in the pool sessions, then we'd move out to OW to perform the watermanship evaluation. I was kinda surprised when I went down for my first pool session only to learn how to streamline my rig, using a SS 12L cylinder with a H valve, and thereafter I was told to swim around the pool and get used to the rig, and the other thing I learnt was the modified frog kick, which he said would be covered in the OW trip, but just taught me anyway, to let me go afor another few tryout swims around the pool with the new stroke. The whole time my instructor was high and dry and sitting on the bench watching me swim.
I asked him what about the different propulsion techniques, lift bag deployment, OOA drills, he sad those are covered when we go out for our OW trip(about 2 weeks from now), conducted in a 'confined water' area. That got me a bit puzzled.
I was expecting in depth, serious dive education, especially now that we're slightly out of the recreational diving levels and moving towards tech, but it didn't give me that sort of a feel.
Was it like that for the rest of you?
alpenadiver
Contributor
During my Deep Diver, and Adv. Nitrox class this summer we didn't use a pool we went out to the lake about 25 feet deep, and practiced all the drills from there. I imagine it is up to the instructor, the instructor may have wanted to check out your skills before getting out in OW.
Mike
Mike
PerroneFord
Contributor
Post deleted.
While I am not attempting to stir any pots, I surely must voice my thoughts or I'd be remiss. Normally I'd stay out of a discussion such as this, but my concerns far outweigh the possibilities of internet bickering.
dsong9 and PerroneFord....You've got less than 100 dives logged between the 2 of you (I'd actually say less than 75, but I digress), and you're already jumping headlong into deep air (another rant in and of itself) and advanced nitrox?
I myself have 65 dives, most of them in the cold, dark and harsh conditions of the Northeast, have taken GUE Fundamentals, yet I feel that I have quite a way to go before I even consider taking on the task of a Tech I level class.
We've talked multiple times Perrone, about the GUE system/mindset as a whole and frankly, it confounds me that you're taking such a class based on our talks and your current experience.
Please, don't misunderstand me. I am not thumping my chest and calling you guys stupid for doing this. I genuinely care for your safety and again, would be remiss if I didn't voice my concerns. I guess I'm more shocked that there are training agencies out there that willingly take the money from the student for the class whether they are ready or not. Specialty cards are one thing, but Advanced Nitrox?
Whatever you do, please be safe gents, I want to see the both of you around for the long haul.
dsong9 and PerroneFord....You've got less than 100 dives logged between the 2 of you (I'd actually say less than 75, but I digress), and you're already jumping headlong into deep air (another rant in and of itself) and advanced nitrox?
I myself have 65 dives, most of them in the cold, dark and harsh conditions of the Northeast, have taken GUE Fundamentals, yet I feel that I have quite a way to go before I even consider taking on the task of a Tech I level class.
We've talked multiple times Perrone, about the GUE system/mindset as a whole and frankly, it confounds me that you're taking such a class based on our talks and your current experience.
Please, don't misunderstand me. I am not thumping my chest and calling you guys stupid for doing this. I genuinely care for your safety and again, would be remiss if I didn't voice my concerns. I guess I'm more shocked that there are training agencies out there that willingly take the money from the student for the class whether they are ready or not. Specialty cards are one thing, but Advanced Nitrox?
Whatever you do, please be safe gents, I want to see the both of you around for the long haul.
PerroneFord
Contributor
Derek S. I am not taking Deep Air nor will I *EVER* take deep air. My reason for taking Nitrox is to rid myself of air completely in my diving. My tanks will get cleaned and never see air again.
As for the Adv. Nitrox, yes, it's concerned more than just you. We can talk privately about it if you like, but your concerns are valid and well placed. I am not sure if you are aware, but IANTD Adv Nitrox only goes to 50%. So in that regard, its a short step above PADI/SSI/NAUI recreational nitrox at 40%. However, I would NOT recommend anyone do what I am attempting to do. I say attempting because there is the distinct possiblity I will not pass the class which is ok with me and was discussed with my instructor prior to my class.
BELIEVE me I know full well about the lack of experience. Actually, I think I'll share a PM or two with you.
As for the Adv. Nitrox, yes, it's concerned more than just you. We can talk privately about it if you like, but your concerns are valid and well placed. I am not sure if you are aware, but IANTD Adv Nitrox only goes to 50%. So in that regard, its a short step above PADI/SSI/NAUI recreational nitrox at 40%. However, I would NOT recommend anyone do what I am attempting to do. I say attempting because there is the distinct possiblity I will not pass the class which is ok with me and was discussed with my instructor prior to my class.
BELIEVE me I know full well about the lack of experience. Actually, I think I'll share a PM or two with you.
in_cavediver
Contributor
Derek S:
First, a little clarification might be in order. The "Deep Air" class is nothing more than the IANTD deep diver speciality, max depth is 130' just like all of the other agencies. The IANTD advanced nitrox class is still within rec limits and is considered a sport diver program by IANTD. (Latest standards I think increased the max depth to 140' though). The role of this class is to introduce divers who are going deeper to the techniques and equipement technical divers use. The biggest difference I saw was the emphasis on dive planning and contingencies.
When I took the class, I had a pretty good instructor. We spent significant amounts of time on equipment and basic dive skills needed. As I recall, it took a night in the pool and 6 days in OW to complete. (could have been less but diving in Ohio in February is cold). I can't tell you the number of times I went through valve shutdowns and shooting lift bags.
The level at which a diver should consider this class is variable. It pretty much boils down to expierence, comfort and skills. Also realize, taking the class does not guarentee a C-card. I won't say PerroneFord or dsong9 is ready and I won't say they aren't. They as individuals and thier instructor need to assess that.
Mike
PerroneFord
Contributor
I think in the abundance of caution, we should probably not consider ourselves ready to be certiied. That is how I approached the class. As a learning opportunity, with the most likely occurance being the issuance of a basic Nitrox Diver card, and a "Come back in 3 months" when you have more experience" for the advanced cert. I have surprised myself somewhat in how I have been able to improve my skills in the pool sessions. I never suspected I'd get comfy with doubles (smaller ones) the way I have. Large double tanks are still beyond me.
I estimate it will take another 30 dives before I feel I have my buoyancy where *I* would like it to be before worrying about slinging a bottle or other complications. But rather than take AOW and trying to go to 100ft on a single tank, I preferred to at least learn HOW to do it safely and with the proper gear under the direction of a good instructor.
Just as I don't think your AOW card means you are now safe to dip to 130ft, I don't think an Adv. Nitrox card means you're all set to start deco diving. It means you understand the concepts, and can handle the gear. Experience is a good teacher and comes only with time and practice. I hope dsong9 shares my concerns and will spend lots of time practicing in shallower water before starting to truly delve into the harder diving. I know I am months away before I'll be doing triple digit depth dives.
I estimate it will take another 30 dives before I feel I have my buoyancy where *I* would like it to be before worrying about slinging a bottle or other complications. But rather than take AOW and trying to go to 100ft on a single tank, I preferred to at least learn HOW to do it safely and with the proper gear under the direction of a good instructor.
Just as I don't think your AOW card means you are now safe to dip to 130ft, I don't think an Adv. Nitrox card means you're all set to start deco diving. It means you understand the concepts, and can handle the gear. Experience is a good teacher and comes only with time and practice. I hope dsong9 shares my concerns and will spend lots of time practicing in shallower water before starting to truly delve into the harder diving. I know I am months away before I'll be doing triple digit depth dives.
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