GUE - Fundies?
- Thread starter zahgurim
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1. You'll pack a lot of diving and drills into a few days. If you haven't been diving much over the winter, get your legs and diving muscles in shape before the class.
2. Are you ready for the swim test?
3. See if anyone can teach you the back kick, or at least get you started.
4. Work on precision buoyancy, going up and down in the water column at 5-foot intervals.
5. Any experience with doubles? If not, try to get some before the class, and get yourself a properly-sized wing for the doubles that you will be using. (I presume if you're going for the tech pass you will doing the class in doubles.)
6. Pay attention to depth, time and gas during the class, don't take a passive approach and expect the instructor to keep track of all that and to call the dive at the proper time. You and the other students are expected to work as a team and to have situational, time and gas awareness amongst yourselves as students. Do not depend on the instructor for that. The instructor will be watching how and how often you and the other students communicate time and gas amongst yourselves.
Ok, so maybe when I get into something, I tend to "dive" in head first (pun fully intended!) and go overboard.
TSandM, I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. My point, however, is that if you can get comfortable with most of the skills beforehand, you will definitely get more out of the course. I'm not necessarily talking about doing a perfect Basic 5. I'm mostly referring to keeping your buoyancy and trim under control while being task loaded. That's the base right there. Think how much easier it would be to get a provisional because you need to clean up a few things (like my light cord example) rather than to fail because you can't even maintain your position in the water or shoot up while doing #5 of the Basic 5.
One of the comments made by instructor to my Fundies buddy was that he lacked "situational awareness". Meaning, for example, that while attempting a valve drill, he was so consumed with controlling his own lack of buoyancy that he didn't notice that he was almost vertical (tyring to swim down to control his ascent) and that the instructor was trying to signal him with his light. I also know of at least 3 people who took Fundies, got frustrated during the class, failed rec, and have given up entirely. Also, keep in mind that there is a time limit for getting your checkout after a fail or provisional. Otherwise you need to take the course again. I think it's six months.
GUE has rolled out a Fundies "primer" course - along with a few other courses. I just saw an email today from Andreas also announcing a new DS and Doubles course. This is the type of course that one would take without any advanced prep just to learn the basic skills in order to later practice them and THEN be ready for more learning and taking full advantage of Fundies.
I like Doc Harry's list. I think this is the minimum to shoot for in order to have an outstanding experience in Fundies - i.e., finish with a
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Blackwood
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Fact: Some students probably should take the course twice.
This all a consequence of making GUE-f a pass/fail course with grades from 1 to 5, minimum scores for this and that, and having tech and rec etc. passes.
In the old days you did the workshop. Whenever you were prepared after that, by your own notions or (better) in consultation with your instructor, you signed up for Cave1 or Tech1. If you <still> weren't ready you failed or provisionaled C1 or T1.
Nowadays GUE has shifted everything forward and people sign up for GUE-f wanting or feeling they need to practice so they can pass. But the reality is that defeats the purpose of the class as preparation for technical or cave diving in the first place.
So instead of having a class and then taking as much time as you need to get into C1 or T1 shape we now have all these limits placed on students 'up front', reevals of rec passes into tech passes, provisional timeframe crunches, qualified people not really being motivated to take a 4 day class etc. Basically the agency is now dictating students pace. And that creates the pressure to "pre-practice" for some students because 4 days will not be enough and simultaneously discourages already qualified people for starting because 4 days is too much bother.
My only GUE course was one of the very first T2 courses ever. I just needed a mix card and it wasn't very demanding so I was able to actually pay attention to what was going on with the class far more than say my original cave certification. This was at a time when fundies did not exist. Both of the two newly minted C1 divers in the course (one of whom went on to do much bigger cave exploration dives that I have ever even considered) struggled. They were competent divers but the value of the course to them was held up a bit by little skills issues. Nothing major, but little stuff. While requiring everyone to take fundies now hoses a very small number of divers, the reason for needing to confirm that everyone is at a base level strongly outweighs that issue. Because, it tends to be the little stuff that can slip by a more cursory evaluation which is evident if a student attends a full class. Just hard to get around that.
As far as the need to practice goes, my view is that the answer is it depends. Unfortunately, in the every kid gets a trophy era bluntly evaluating people about the level of practice they need is not tolerated as well as it used to be. If you have a decent level of mastery of the skills taught in a basic open water class (which is well above the pass level for most OW classes) you don't need to do anything else for fundies. Most of what fundies does is polish the presentation of these skills.
Here is the rub, some people are natural divers and have this level of skill after completing an open water class. No further diving needed. Go directly to fundies. The majority will develop these skills after varying levels of practice and, depending on where they fit on the talented end of the scale, familiarity with DIR equipment. And, some people, regardless of physical condition, just suck at diving and will either never get to the level of being able to pass fundies or it will take an enormous amount of effort and drive.
Most people need some post OW class experience, particularly to square away buoyancy. Diving with other qualified divers (easier to identify if they have a good amount of DIR experience) is the best way to get feedback on what you should do before joining a course.
Let me add one caveat, I have seen naturals hit the pool on their first day of class and nail buoyancy in a 3mm suit. I have never seen anyone nail buoyancy in a drysuit on their first dive, but some pick it up really quickly.
As far as the need to practice goes, my view is that the answer is it depends. Unfortunately, in the every kid gets a trophy era bluntly evaluating people about the level of practice they need is not tolerated as well as it used to be. If you have a decent level of mastery of the skills taught in a basic open water class (which is well above the pass level for most OW classes) you don't need to do anything else for fundies. Most of what fundies does is polish the presentation of these skills.
Here is the rub, some people are natural divers and have this level of skill after completing an open water class. No further diving needed. Go directly to fundies. The majority will develop these skills after varying levels of practice and, depending on where they fit on the talented end of the scale, familiarity with DIR equipment. And, some people, regardless of physical condition, just suck at diving and will either never get to the level of being able to pass fundies or it will take an enormous amount of effort and drive.
Most people need some post OW class experience, particularly to square away buoyancy. Diving with other qualified divers (easier to identify if they have a good amount of DIR experience) is the best way to get feedback on what you should do before joining a course.
Let me add one caveat, I have seen naturals hit the pool on their first day of class and nail buoyancy in a 3mm suit. I have never seen anyone nail buoyancy in a drysuit on their first dive, but some pick it up really quickly.
- Messages
- 13,493
- Reaction score
- 10,156
- Location
- Port Orchard, Washington State
- # of dives
- 1000 - 2499
Not really. Most other decent technical instructors (regardless of agency) hold students back who aren't ready. Its just not as formalized as a 1 though 5 score and 30deg of trim XYZ as GUE has spelled out. This is both a fault and a blessing.
The reality is that you should really build a relationship with an instructor and local like-minded buddies. If you are so far distant from a GUE instructor and its such a big deal to bring them in to teach a class (i.e. you don't want to pay to bring them back etc), then maybe you want to rethink how this remote and distant person is going to advance your diving over time. Beyond just the long GUE-f weekend. You may very well be better off travelling to a class (and be willing to go back if you provisional/fail), or maybe even interviewing and choosing a local instructor.
I know a few people who have flown in GUE instructors who had no on-going relationship with the student (GUE-f and Tech1 classes) and by and large these efforts were not very productive. They created lots of provisional time crunches and the distant instructor wasn't there to help build them as divers over time either. If you have a instructor/student relationship the long-distance thing can work, but you need to mutually commit to that. "I can only afford to fly <instructor name> in once and take this class once, so I need to practice beforehand" is a sign that you're not getting off on the right foot.
PfcAJ
Contributor
An elementary fundamentals course? Isn't that a bit redundant?
As far as I know, this "Primer" is more of a "what GUE diving is all about" for people that really have no idea if GUE diving is for them, and for areas/shops that don't have any knowledge of GUE.
For many of us, we take GUE as a given. We've known about it for quite some time. But to others, its completely foreign. Not everyone frequents scuba forums or has seen GUE divers in the water.
Blackwood
Contributor
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