GUE Fundamentals BP/W: Hopeless without Halcyon ?

[rongoodman]

I was recently listening to a PADI instructor blaming GUE and DIR for changes that PADI is making to its teaching standards, presumably regarding skills taught in neutral buoyancy, etc. I doubt they really care what PADI is doing, but he was convinced.

 

[beester]

Heya Roger, First of I hope you have a wonderful time during your fundies. It's a hard course but in my mind there is no course that opened up my mind to what is possible in diving than this little gem! No matter what else you have planned in your diving future, it's a range of skills that will make all diving more comfortable and enjoyable, IMHO.

What I would suggest, is even tho it's not so easy probably in your woods to find gue trained buddies, is to already start diving the gear that you acquired. The more familiar you are with it, the easier it will be to use during the course. There is a lot of stuff to take in during the course, and if you at the same time need to adjust as well to a lot of new gear it's going to be of course tougher. Specially a doubleset I wouldn't use if your not using it in any case during your regular dives. During my fundies a while ago (2010), one of my classmates was using a doubleset, cable light and drysuit for the first time during the course... he "fought" more with his gear than with the skills taught... he's know I believe GUE's most recent addition to the instructor corps and will teach in France ;-)

Regarding equipment, I like your pragmatic approach, but rest assured that all GUE instructors will not force Halcyon gear on you (if they would I'm sure the would be in violation of the code of conduct), they probably will advice on some of it, because it's just good gear. A big part of the fun in standardization is not in equipment but in procedures, but even in gear it can come in handy sometimes. In 2015, my car was broken into on my way to doing cave dives in France. I continued to the cave diving area without any gear, but managed to do some very very decent dives using only spare equipment from all the buddies around in that area... For an instructor, part of the organisation and management of the course is also the logistics surrounding the course. If some equipment breaks down, or if something is forgotten, he will most of the time try to repair or use spare equipment, this is just easier if he knows that all are using gear he is familiar with.

PS: While I don't actually own that much halcyon equipment, my wings are all halcyon (40 lbs, 60 lbs, single tank and the rebreather wing)... because it's just very good gear.
PPS: You'll find that most instructors are very approachable and more flexible than you would think. When I did my fundies we didn't even dive nitrox (just air) because there was no adequate filling station in the neighborhood who would supply nitrox.

Good luck with the course! I'm sure you'll have heaps of fun... and write a report when you are done!

 

[Mustard Dave]

The vast majority of gooeyists that I know own little or no Halcyon kit and are very quick to correct anybody who accuses them of exclusively using their gear.

 

[Ayisha]

The training will probably require to use doubles anyway, for which I will have no use given the type of diving I intend to do in the upcoming years, so I will probably end up renting a doubles Halcyon BP/W for the course anyway.

If you are not planning on moving to doubles, you should really just do Fundies in a single tank setup and go for a recreational pass.

FWIW, I had switched to a Halcyon BP/W 3 years before I ever took Fundies, so I had never asked for recommendations on that kit, but I did for other kit, and my instructors never recommended any specific brand. I wore my UTD Precision fins for Fundies and ever since, and nobody commented on them or any of my other non-Halcyon gear.

It just needs to be compliant with the standards.

 

[Ayisha]

I have had a conversation with one of the GUE instructors that Roger emailed with, and he has informed me that the gear choices that were mentioned to him were not compliant with the standards, for example, a bp/w without a crotch strap, etc. He sent Roger pictures of compliant gear, which were pictures of Halcyon gear, but he in no way said that only Halcyon gear would be acceptable.

Hope that clears things up a bit...

 

[lv2dive]

What a great explanation! It’s a perfect example of one of the reasons Halcyon is often a recommended brand. The instructors know it will meet the standards, with other brands, the standards may be met or they may not.

So what’s the big deal about a crotch strap, really? I mean, c’mon, one piece of fabric can’t make a huge difference, right? When I took my drysuit primer with Doug Mudry, he suggested I tighten mine up a bit. That small adjustment made a world of difference in my ability to hold trim to twenty degrees or less. And Doug helped me tighten it up, even though it was not (gasp!) a Halcyon backplate/harness. I never heard a word about an issue with the brand.

I have had a conversation with one of the GUE instructors that Roger emailed with, and he has informed me that the gear choices that were mentioned to him were not compliant with the standards, for example, a bp/w without a crotch strap, etc. He sent Roger pictures of compliant gear, which were pictures of Halcyon gear, but he in no way said that only Halcyon gear would be acceptable.

Hope that clears things up a bit...

 

[sigxbill]

@Ayisha - a crotch strap can be added to most bp's ... which means your original gear choice could be fine with a small $15 addition ...

 

[Roger Hobden]

For the equipment, from the instructor point of view, its easier to say buy Halcyon. They probably dont have all the time in the world to look at all the other options.

Well, I understand very well that one individual instructor might possibly not have the time to know about the other diving equipment currently available in one's area.

But, it would be useful to new divers if GUE, as an international organization, could draw up a complete list of available BP/W brands/models that satisfy the GUE standards. This list could include Halcyon material naturally, and should be updated once every year or every two years.

Since there is apparently no conflict of interest between both organizations, this shouldn't be a problem, right ?

 

[Roger Hobden]

I have had a conversation with one of the GUE instructors that Roger emailed with, and he has informed me that the gear choices that were mentioned to him were not compliant with the standards, for example, a bp/w without a crotch strap, etc. He sent Roger pictures of compliant gear, which were pictures of Halcyon gear, but he in no way said that only Halcyon gear would be acceptable.

As mentioned previously, I will not make public the emails i received.
So, no comment.

 

[johnkendall]

Hi All,

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet, an hope not to get shot

I am a GUE Instructor, and get asked these kind of questions regularly.

If someone asks me "what wing/backplate should I get" I answer Halcyon. Because I have used that gear for 18 years and it works correctly for the training we in GUE provide. If they ask for alternatives, then I say I can't answer, because I don't know. I do have a list of brands/models that don't work well during GUE training, that I have compiled over the last 12 years of teaching GUE classes. I can give good reasons why they are not ideal if someone asks me directly.
However, if someone turns up with an XYZ wing and an ABC backplate, then as long as it fulfills the standarda, then they can take the class in it. Many times I've had exactly this situation, and people have passed the class in that kit. Many times people have struggled due to the kit, and I loan them my spare gear to finish the class. I spend a lot of time looking at kit, and analysing whether it would work for my classes, but the only stuff I have bought for myself is Halcyon.

The only classes within GUE that require a specific brand are the Rebreather classes.

In terms of the images on the website, all images have copyright. Halcyon allow us to use images of their gear. Also, most of the Instructors use Halcyon gear, and so naturally most of the photos will end up that way.

HTH
John