guages or console

[MHK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...



So a revised answer to the question would be that you shouldn't get a computer if you are going to take a DIRF class. So while taking Dan's advice along with the DIRF would probably be worth while and well worth the money you still have that other $300 plus instructor expenses to plan for in order to benefit from the advice.

Do you want to feed someone fish once, or do you want to teach them how to fish???

If the only thing that someone takes out of the DIR-F class is the computing deco-on-the-fly, then I didn't do my job properly and they should ask me for a refund.. The class is so much more then that, so I guess my point is if the budgetary consideration is limited to $300 how is the money best spent, I would say that the DIR-F class makes you an overall better diver, whereas a computer computes the algorithm designed for Joe diver and leaves the diver dependent on a device that could fail..

BTW, I was half-joking with my initial response..

Also, one question for the moderators or any one else that knows.. I thought this was a "technical" diving site, per the home page, are questions such as console -v- computer the idea behind this list??? Not that I mind, and I'll answer anyone's question, but I'm just trying to a gauge a sense so as to form answers understandable to the audience.

Later

 

[MikeFerrara]

MHK once bubbled...


Do you want to feed someone fish once, or do you want to teach them how to fish???

If the only thing that someone takes out of the DIR-F class is the computing deco-on-the-fly, then I didn't do my job properly and they should ask me for a refund.. The class is so much more then that, so I guess my point is if the budgetary consideration is limited to $300 how is the money best spent, I would say that the DIR-F class makes you an overall better diver, whereas a computer computes the algorithm designed for Joe diver and leaves the diver dependent on a device that could fail..

BTW, I was half-joking with my initial response..

Also, one question for the moderators or any one else that knows.. I thought this was a "technical" diving site, per the home page, are questions such as console -v- computer the idea behind this list??? Not that I mind, and I'll answer anyone's question, but I'm just trying to a gauge a sense so as to form answers understandable to the audience.

Later

Mike,

This is the "Basic Scuba Discussions" section of Scuba Board. It isn't a technical only board.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest there isn't value in your class only that some of the answers given to these folks is incomplete. Wouldn't you agree that just the statement "you don't need a computer " is a bit short? It's a daily thing here but only the regulars have any idea what some of these guys are talking about.

 

[MHK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Mike,

This is the "Basic Scuba Discussions" section of Scuba Board. It isn't a technical only board.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest there isn't value in your class only that some of the answers given to these folks is incomplete. Wouldn't you agree that just the statement "you don't need a computer " is a bit short? It's a daily thing here but only the regulars have any idea what some of these guys are talking about.

Doooh!!! Sorry I got my boards confused, I thought it was the tech board.. I've gotta stop posting when I'm on the phone ;-)

I agree that "you don't need a computer is a short answer", but I would quickly add that the most important question ANYONE needs to ask is, WHY.. I say all the time, particularly on BBS's that unless someone can answer you WHY, then you shouldn't be listening to the advice, so it seems to me that if someone is willing to simply say that so and so said on a BBS that you don't need a computer, and that applies that cavalier approach to his/her diving, then I'm fearful of what kind of diver we have here..

Sorry for adding to the confusion, but I jump back and forth between boards and it get's confusing.. Plus also, I was celebrating a friends birthday in Las Vegas this weekend so I'm a wee bit behind in the sleep column today ;-)

Later

 

[nickjb]

MHK once bubbled...



That's easy Mike, we tell them to take a DIR-F class and then we teach them how to do it in the class ;-)

Later

On my DIRf we must have skipped the bits on multi level diving and the 'deco on the fly' stuff was somewhat glossed over. Is there any more info available. I don't recall anything in the book either.

Cheers
Nick

 

[MikeFerrara]

nickjb once bubbled...



On my DIRf we must have skipped the bits on multi level diving and the 'deco on the fly' stuff was somewhat glossed over. Is there any more info available. I don't recall anything in the book either.

Cheers
Nick

At least here on the board there seems to be some that had it in their DIRF and some that didn't. I don't know if it is a requirement now with the standards changes or if you have to take another class. Then again, what if you don't want to get into tech or cave diving? Many won't want to even take the trox course since there are so many areas where you just can't get mix. I guess those folks are just stuck with the recommendation not to buy a computer "because"

Actually it isn't too hard. If you take a good look at the tables noticing trends you will see that you can guestimate and come pretty close to what the table says. Beyond that if you apply some common sense procedures to your diving you will see how it can all fit.

 

[Dan Gibson]

MHK once bubbled...
I agree that "you don't need a computer is a short answer", but I would quickly add that the most important question ANYONE needs to ask is, WHY.. I say all the time, particularly on BBS's that unless someone can answer you WHY, then you shouldn't be listening to the advice, so it seems to me that if someone is willing to simply say that so and so said on a BBS that you don't need a computer, and that applies that cavalier approach to his/her diving, then I'm fearful of what kind of diver we have here..

Mike,

Don't forget one of the most important Why. The money you save can go towards a cannister light.

 

[TheDarknessLord]

for a cave dive a computer is not a must! of course that you have to bring your deco table with you, but a computer will show you your multi-level dive like a pro!!!

 

[Big-t-2538]

TheDarknessLord once bubbled...
for a cave dive a computer is not a must! of course that you have to bring your deco table with you, but a computer will show you your multi-level dive like a pro!!!

So it is or is not???? recommended

 

[Cinjodi]

I was told today, by a LDS, that computers are now required to dive everywhere. Required. He said that I wouldn't be able to get on a boat without one in the Caribbean.

I admit that it's been a year since I last dove, and it was FL, but this sounds like BS to me.

Do I really have to buy a computer? Not that I won't buy one eventually, but is it true that it is required now?

 

[jplacson]

I went against my instructor's advice and got a computer first. My personal preference. I noticed that during a dive, even in familiar waters... a DM cannot make sure that everyone is at EXACTLY the same depth... +/- 5 feet here and there, and your buddy, or you might have a different profile already.

Although it's ALWAYS better to plan your dive & dive your plan.... circumstances can't always guarantee that novice divers can accurately monitor depth... specially with an analog gauge.

I'm not saying that you SHOULD get one... I'm just saying my reasons for buying one. Should I get separated from the dive group by accident, or whatever reason, I feel secure knowing that I'm still sticking to the dive plan, and the computer can compensate for any discrepancy in depth or time that may have occured during a dive.

Now, I've never heard of computers being mandatory. I feel that only means that the local DMs aren't very attentive, or are taking on groups larger than they can personally handle. That's fine if everyone is an experienced diver... but not so good for novices. Even if you do have a computer.

A computer won't save your life... your training will. A computer just gives you info... how deep you are, how fast you're ascending, how much Nodeco time you have left, etc... what you do with that info is still up to you...regardless of how loud the thing beeps... it cannot swim up for you.

If you wanna be safe, stick close to the DM, and fin a little bit above him/her. That way you're sure you're well within your limits. I feel that's a good way of being safer without a computer to RE-AFFIRM your plan.

Always have a back-up plan... whether it's tables underwater, or having a buddy with the same dive profile as you and a computer as well. If you and your buddy have the same profile (as you should if you both dive properlly), and both have computers... then you both should be fine.

I hear some Dive resorts rent computers... why not try one. Why buy when you can rent!!! :lol: seriously, rent or better yet...borrow one from a close friend.

I use mine to make sure that me or the rest of the group is within the limits. Not to push the limits. But just the same, I still stick close to the group. That way, even if my system fails, I can just go with the group and still be ok with no real change to the plan... maybe an extra min or so for safety stops but that's it.

They're fun to have... but IMO not a real need... unless you're diving with psycho divers who you don't trust! :lol: