Gotta love that Pony

[scarefaceDM]

scarefaceDM-If the 2 divers you were suppose to be watching had drained an 80, well, first, shame on you BUT why didn't you give them all your regs and you use the 19? That's what a pony is for.

Well salty. Shame on me? really.....you are making an assumption based on lack of intell...I did not want to get into any details...

This was an Advance course and I was a third buddy following them. They planned the dive. That was part of the course. As you may know **** happens on a dive, even the best planned ones. They were not newly certified divers. They were Advanced divers on an advance Course. So they knew what they were doing.

I should clear up that sucking a tank to 1000 psi is sucking a tank dry in my opinion.

The dive time was at 15 minutes when they signaled to me there was an issue...so that is when I called the dive.

As for the hand off my regs to both of them. and take the Pony....Do you dive twins?

I have a long hose for donating and a short hose for me. That short hose is in no way capable of extending to an OOA/low air diver. Unless they are stuck to me like glue. And that would make for a dangerous situation to be in. A panic diver is dangerous to be with especially if you cannot control them properly.

So that is what the Long hose is for. Donation. The Pony - as you call it - was handed to the diver that had enough air to properly ascend(1000 psi) without a buddy breathing ascent. So he took my PONY and breathed from that so he can have a reserve for the safety stop. The second diver need to to be controlled more. He was more panicky and a little loopy(narced). So he was on my long hose. I took over the lead and made a safe group ascent following the guide line to a predetermined safety stop and called over a second DM that was there. To watch over the Diver on my pony -as you so call it.

So in short. No Salty....I chose to hand off the 19 to one diver to be able to control the other while they were on my long hose and I was on my secondary hose. That is how you dive twins and control an OOA/low air diver.

Anyone diving twins will tell you that the long hose is for donation. You hand off your stage/Pony or what ever redundant air source you have. If you have to of course.

Safe dives

 

[OldNSalty]

My bad-I missed the part about the twins. Still, letting your charges run short on air and all...

 

[TSandM]

You dive a pony with doubles? That's a new one on me.

 

[scarefaceDM]

TSandM - No I dive a stage, a 40 usually or an 80. depending on the dive when I am diving deep or extended range. On a course..I do not usually take a redundant air supply but that day I did. I only had a 19 on hand. So forgive me if I used what I had at the time.On that day in that year say 4 ish years ago.... I learned to bring bigger tanks afterward.

And salty dude...No I did not let two advanced divers on a course run out of air. I let them dive there planned dive and followed the plan. There were to plan the dive and there gas management. They were to rely on each other for bailout as you do in a buddy system...All approved by the instructor whom was not far behind observing. I was an observer...while the instructor was also watching. They communicated the gas at 30 feet and at 60 feet all was good....a little low for me, not every ones SAC rate is the same especially on a course...When a problem occurred I reacted. I seen them communicate there air supply to each other..I did my job accordingly.

I was an observer of a planed dive by two divers that were certified and in an advanced course...all within safe parameters set by the instructor.

were done here.
safe dives

 

[halocline]

It sounds like the 19 cft pony did it's job despite the fact that the problem here was poorly performing and poorly supervised divers in a course. If the students are taking a deep diving class, and learning about gas management in the process, it's the instructor's job to control the students, specifically monitor their air consumption. This apparently did not happen. That's not best resolved by carrying a bigger bailout bottle, it's resolved by making sure the students don't get into that kind of situation in the first place.

If you're talking about a moderate recreational AOW deep dive, like around 80-90ft, and the students had 1000 PSI left, that's not anything at all like a dry tank. That just means it's time for an immediate ascent, which is what you did. But it's not an OOA emergency. What's the big deal?

Again, you might feel more comfortable carrying a 40 cft stage on a recreational single tank NDL dive, but the vast majority of divers would consider it a big overkill. Certainly enough so that it's just plain wrong for you to label anything under a 40 cft bailout bottle "useless." And, your story directly undermines your opinion of smaller bailout bottles. You had one, you used it, it worked. That's the definition of 'useFUL' not 'useLESS.'

 

[scarefaceDM]

I should have said I find a 19 is useless for deeper dives. That is my opinion.
I can say that a 19 was USEFUL at that time during that well supervised dive....
Was I glad I had it, yes. But I use a 40 which is better IMO. I do not bring it on all my dives - do not need it unless diving deeper than 60 feet.

You dive your dive and dive it safely. Who cares what gear you have. In the end..it is that you and your buddy or insta-buddy surfaced to dive another day and you had fun doing it.
Isn't that the point anyways. Regardless of opinions. Gear configurations or the size or your PONY...

safe dives.

 

[halocline]

I should have said I find a 19 is useless for deeper dives. That is my opinion.
I can say that a 19 was USEFUL at that time during that well supervised dive....
Was I glad I had it, yes. But I use a 40 which is better IMO.

See, that's much better....you state your preference, but you're not saying that a very mainstream 19 cft bailout bottle is "useless."

And it does sound like you bailed out the instructor on that dive if you took the low on air students to the surface.

 

[Crush]

I should have said I find a 19 is useless for deeper dives.

HI scarefaceDM,

I am not saying that you are wrong - I am just curious what depth you feel a 19 cu ft tank is good for, and why. I believe that a 19 cu ft tank has a rock bottom depth of about 130 feet, and therefore is good for depths up to 130 feet. However, I can't say that I am absolutely correct - only that I arrived at 130 feet using a slightly elevated SAC (have to check what it was, can't recall right now), one minute at 130 feet to solve "the problem," an ascent at 30 ft/min to 20 feet, a three minute safety stop, and then a slow ascent to the surface, all for a single diver.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Doc Harry]

When I dove in the cold Great Lakes, I never before saw so many people with pony bottles. I asked why.

"Free flows" was the answer.

 

[Rocketmahn]

Let me preface my comment with I haven't dove doubles yet so I could be wrong in my understanding of how they are connected....

But, doesn't a Pony bottle offer a higher degree of redundancy than doubles???


With doubles isn't the manifold Isolation Valve a "single point" failure mode?

For example - If the manifold isolation valve gets physically damaged (hitting an overhead etc.) or it's valve stem seals let lose won't both tanks bleed HP air through the damaged manifold valve until you shut the tanks (and your air supply) off ?

However, a pony bottle is a 100% independent and redundant air supply.

Period.

It's also very easy to use if you ever need to.
Just put your pony regulator in your mouth, breath, and swim to your buddy or start your ascent.

There is no trying to troubleshoot and then reach up, back, and over to locate and then to shutoff exactly the correct valve(s) while you could be slightly narc'd, and for sure slightly panicked.