Got Burned by DACOR

[oly5050user]

Once again I have to agree to disagree oly5050user. You make some valid points. I completely understand and agree with a shop owners stand point. Like you said it's all about liability. The sad thing of this reality is that society in general is unwilling to accept the responsibility and consiquences of thier own actions and are all to quick to pass the buck and or sue someone else for something that was entirely thier own fault. And no I don't really blame Dacor. It was just a shock to find out that a juggernaut of the scuba industry like Dacor is gone. Just goes to show that a life time warranty could very well mean the life time of the company. As far as not diving for 12 years... what can I say, sometimes life gets in the way of our leisure time activities. Lack of time and or finances, loss of interest, other interest, having a child, and the list goes on and on. And even though this "Mares Upgrade Offer" you spoke of is long gone there is still details of this offer on line and it was hardly a deal at all. It was more like "you give us your perfectly good Dacor gear and we will allow you to buy our bottom of the line gear at a slight discount". Not an offer I would have taken even if I had known about it at the time.

"With the time and energy and cost of tools you are going to spend you are better off buying a new regulator that will perform better than a regulator made 20+years ago with its old technology. Mostly all regulators made today perform better than their older counterparts. Technology changes in design and materials make even the most basic of regulators breath and perform better than many of the best of the older ones."

This is where I strongly disagree with you. As far as the time and energy spent to make tools... this is something I do and enjoy anyway in my hobby machinist activities and I'm actually looking forward to a new machining challenge. And Technically speaking I don't really need any specialty tools other than an IP gauge to get the job done anyway. I'm just a techie nerdy sort of guy and a stinker for details.

As far as 20 year old

technology... other than the development of the single hose two stage regulator there has been no ground breaking, earth shattering technology developments in the scuba industry since Jacques-Yves Cousteau and his buddy invented scuba back in the early1940s. First stages are still machined out of marine grade chrome plated brass, O-rings are still O-rings, silicone is still silicone, rubber hoses are still rubber hoses, and valve seats are still valve seats. The technology hasn't changed and newer doesn't

nothing to stop you from DIY..its a admirable thing as in todays society many people cannot change a light bulb without help or know what end of a screwdriver to hold. As to your other statement,materials and technology has changed in scuba gear as it has in everything else.Yes 1st stages are made out of brass,chrome plated ,but plastics are everywhere.Easier to clean,lighter weight,less expensive to make,..O rings are made out of newer materials to last longer,silicone lubrication is usually not used in regulators any longer.Cristolube is.Hoses are not just rubber hoses anymore,there is a greater selection of long,short,more flexible,miflex hoses. High pressure seats are made of newer materials/shapes. Put a new regulator from a manufacturer ,even their budget models,on a test bench and it usually can out perform their top end regulators from years ago. Everything changes. Look at outboard engines. Replaced my 1987 175HP johnson with a new 200hp yamaha HPDI model...Still a 2 cycle engine,but due to fuel injection and other advances uses 50% less fuel and very little oil and is much more quiet.
.

 

[Paladin]

"If I had an IP gauge I could easily service my gear following the service manual. I'm just a nerd who likes to read and tinker with my lathe/mill."


IP gauges can be bought at Divers Supply, Leisurepro or Ebay for around $20. They're cheap and easy to find.

 

[ScubaTigress]

The thing about having Dacor equipment is that since it DID go under so long ago, all parts kits available for the regs are also 10+ years or older, making it totally pointless to get serviced. Even though the parts kits haven't been used, they're still old and not reliable because of it. Things deteriorate just as well when they sit around in storage for so long, so it's not recommended to continue to use/service a dacor regulator.

Your best bet is to put it up on ebay and maybe a "vintage" collector will pick it up, and use that money to get a new reg at the very least.... BCDs can at least go til they blow

 

[toliver66]

but plastics are everywhere.Easier to clean,lighter weight,less expensive to make,..O rings are made out of newer materials to last longer,silicone lubrication is usually not used in regulators any longer.Cristolube is.Hoses are not just rubber hoses anymore,there is a greater selection of long,short,more flexible,miflex hoses. High pressure seats are made of newer materials/shapes. Put a new regulator from a manufacturer ,even their budget models,on a test bench and it usually can out perform their top end regulators from years ago. Everything changes. Look at outboard engines. Replaced my 1987 175HP johnson with a new 200hp yamaha HPDI model...Still a 2 cycle engine,but due to fuel injection and other advances uses 50% less fuel and very little oil and is much more quiet.
.

All good points although I don't see how plastic is easier to clean. Lighter weight for sure, less expensive to make... maybe... but injection molds for plastic parts are very expensive to machine. At any rate manufacturers certainly don't pass on any savings to us. I don't claim to be an expert but the only changes in o-ring material that I have found in my research were done for nitrox compatibility issues. Same reason for Cristolube, so manufactures can claim their regulators are nitrox ready. For standard 21% OX, specialized o-rings and lube aren't needed. Any longevity if any, since cristolube deteriorates over time and silicone doesn't, is just a side benefit. Hoses can be changed/upgraded but in the end a hose is just a hose is a hose. HP seats have one function, to seal. As long as it performs this function and the material its made from will last the given manufacturer service interval what it's made of and the shape hardly has any relevance. Not sure what you mean by ""out perform". My reg was and still is a high end pneumatically balanced tuned regulator. The Dacor Pacer 360 XLE is a fantastic breather and I can't tell any performance difference at 90 ft. than at 2 ft. For that matter a Mares MR12 is nothing more than a basterdized Dacor 360. Manufacturers by the very nature of the business are forced to present the illusion, if nothing else, of progress and being a front runner on the cutting edge of technology. If they don't they will fall by the wayside regardless of the quality and performance of their products. Design changes/improvements therefore are required business practices and not always a good thing. Did a particular manufacturer change the material of their HP seats because its a better longer lasting material or because it is a cheaper easier material to manufacture? As I said before "newer is not always better". Basic regulator design hasn't changed. You have piston, diaphragm, balanced, unbalanced and as many ways to implement these basic designs as their are engineers to design them. But the basic functionality is still the same. Is one design better than another? Sure it is, but marginally at best. Would I be able to tell the difference? Probably not. Would it be enough to warrant dumping another 2 grand on new gear? No.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

WHy would you need to spend that much on new gear? I recently outfitted a couple with new high performance regs and back plate and wing systems for less than that. For both of them.

 

[toliver66]

The thing about having Dacor equipment is that since it DID go under so long ago, all parts kits available for the regs are also 10+ years or older, making it totally pointless to get serviced. Even though the parts kits haven't been used, they're still old and not reliable because of it. Things deteriorate just as well when they sit around in storage for so long, so it's not recommended to continue to use/service a dacor regulator.

Very true indeed. But all the o-rings,

diaphragms, valve seats, filter, and other parts are all standard size, standard materials available newly manufactured from trident. I wouldn't trust those kits off ebay even if they weren't 10 years old.​

Thanks for the info Paladin. I'll be ordering one from ​

leisurepro soon.

 

[emoreira]

Very true indeed. But all the o-rings,

diaphragms, valve seats, filter, and other parts are all standard size, standard materials available newly manufactured from trident. I wouldn't trust those kits off ebay even if they weren't 10 years old.​

Thanks for the info Paladin. I'll be ordering one from ​

leisurepro soon.

I was just thinking the same. Those Trident aftermarket rebuild kits are new, not 10+ years old, so, that problem does not exist.

 

[toliver66]

WHy would you need to spend that much on new gear? I recently outfitted a couple with new high performance regs and back plate and wing systems for less than that. For both of them.

Just an off the cuff estimate based on what I originally invested in gear. But your right, I priced out a complete scuba kit including dive computer at leisurepro for under a grand. I would really only need to replace my reg if I went that route. And maybe a new wet suit. Mine's a little tight these days. :blinking:

 

[fire_diver]

WHy would you need to spend that much on new gear? I recently outfitted a couple with new high performance regs and back plate and wing systems for less than that. For both of them.

Because 22 years ago there were no internet scuba sales. Dive shops charged full price or full price and then some.

 

[Fishpie]

toliver
Although the 360 was the best thing Dacor ever made, it was the "bastardized copy" of the US Divers Conshelf and not the other way around.
And the Pacer was a copy of the Scubapro 109.